People are going to point out the hypocrisy of allowing this versus the marginalization of traditional Catholics. (E.g. “WHILE THE E.F. IS MARGINALIZED THE POPE LETS THIS HAPPEN GOD FORBID A REVERENT LITURGY IS ALLOWED ETC ETC ETC”) Yes, I agree. People need to realize that this is not an effective response! We can point this out all day, but it absolutely won’t change the situation.
It’s the exact same situation as: Radical leftists, when confronted with the hypocrisy of the disappearance of women’s sports through the inevitable dominance of them by males pretending to be females, absolutely [do] [not] [care]. We need to get more creative. We can’t point out hypocrisy AND assume that those we express the opinion to are concerned about hypocrisy. They aren’t.
Liturgy is "public work." The Mass must be a celebration that is open to all, including those of the same sex who identify with the LBGTQ lifestyle. However, with that said, the focus of the liturgy is our participation in Christ' redemptive sacrifice and the proclamation of the Word of God. The liturgy is not an experiment open to new innovations by priest, or laity, who want to become innovators of a new liturgy that changes the rubrics in order to satisfy one's desire for change. The homily is Christ speaking to us in the person of the priest or deacon (In Persona Christi) not two lay people needing to express themselves and their take on the gospel. The clergy that allowed those two men to come and offer their thoughts on the gospel and testimony as gay men should be disciplined. Moreover, the clergy that allowed them to speak should also offer statement of clarification as to what canon law teaches about the Mass and why it should only be a priest or deacon to give the homily. The clarification has nothing to do with those two men identifying themselves as gay men, but rather, everything to do with Christ and the priesthood!
On a final note, we, as Catholics should welcome our brothers and sister in Christ who identify themselves as "gay", even if we are uncomfortable with their choices, however, whether gay or straight, we are all called to live in a state grace. God is merciful, but He is also Just! We must ALL obey His commandments, for our own good, so that we might remain in the peace of Christ and in His Truth: "and you shall know the truth, and truth will make you free" (Jn 8:32).
When we see the faith being manipulated to serve the world in these grotesque ways, many Catholics, myself included, after the initial shock and anger, begin to say "well, for all that, the doctrine is still unchanging, we still have Christ's promise that the gates of Hell will not prevail." In reflecting on this, I am reminded of how Israel thought that there was no way that Jerusalem could fall, because it had the temple, it was the seat of God. The prophets called the people of Israel to holiness to no avail and of course Jerusalem did fall and the temple destroyed and while God stayed true to His covenant with His people, it looked quite different than they had hoped. We cannot see things like this and sit back easy and imagine that because we have true doctrine that this can be allowed. That doctrine does little good inscribed in a book and not upon our hearts, dead on a page instead of alive in our parishes. I see this pandering to the world and honestly fear. Not that Christ will be unfaithful to His word, which is impossible, but rather that God will allow us to lose everything before He loses His Church. If our parishes have lost their savor and can no longer be salt for the earth, they will be trampled underfoot. If they do not bear good fruit for the Kingdom, they will be cut off from the True Vine and tossed to the fire. God will not be mocked and when we use His Church to spread lies, to lead lambs astray, that is what we do, we mock God. I don't have a great answer to what to do with this situation, it's for Cardinal Cupich to act or not, but I do know that this cannot be tolerated and that we as individuals must seek God, to become holy. I am not sure what lies ahead, but God is holy and His Church will either serve His purpose, or be allowed to become a windswept shadow of itself so that a faithful remnant may rebuild.
"I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself: ‘You have chastised me, and I was chastised, like an untrained bull; restore me, and I will return, for You are the Lord my God." Jeremiah 31:18
Maybe the most scandalous thing is that the entire congregation didn’t stand up and walk out on such a sacrilegious “homily.” The sooner we acknowledge that many (most?) Catholics don’t believe the Catholic faith, the better off we will be. And maybe we already do this, and I’m honestly not sure how it would affect the Church’s ministry/governance. For a start, I think any priest who openly flaunts the Church’s teaching should have faculties (all faculties) removed until he repents in sackcloth. This means some parishes would have no priest, which many would blame their bishop for, but in reality it would be the fault of the priest for his lack of faith and/or poor formation.
There are still many faithful Catholics (and priests) in our country, thanks be to God.
This isn't one bit surprising....sadly. My (formerly--I moved out of state) northwestern suburban parish had a fantastic music director. He was asked to leave because he married another man. He wound up at.....of course, Old St. Patrick's, as the music director. Now the president of my children's alma mater, a Jesuit college prep school in the northern Chicago suburbs will be the new pastor at Old St. Pat's beginning July 1st. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on things to see how he manages this parish. I don't think the has a chance in dialing things back. He's not in the country at the moment, but I don't doubt he's aware of this. I almost got married there but they were refurbishing the frescos so we married at Holy Name Cathedral. I'm SO grateful I'm no longer in the Chicago archdiocese. It's fallen so fast under Cupich.
I used to go to this parish (Old St Pat's) before I found a more reverent and traditional parish. I've seen other laity give homilies in the past and not just on Father's Day. At this parish it feels like the main attraction is the "concert" and not the Eucharist. Few people genuflect while entering pews or in front of the Blessed Sacrament. The congregation doesn't kneel during the consecration. Mostly everyone receives the Eucharist so I’m not sure they know or wish to follow the Catholic teaching. Reconciliation is only one day a week for 40 minutes and it’s not emphasized. Homilies are focused on social issues rather than scripture. At a retreat, a priest gave the Eucharist to everyone even if they weren’t Catholic. I’ve attended RCIA meetings where leadership knowingly contradicted church teachings. They attempt to be inclusive of everyone, but seem to leave out reverence to the Lord.
Let's face it... there are large swaths of the Catholic Church (in the western world) that have gone full-Episcopalian on the issue of homosexuality, considering homosexual acts and relationships predicated thereon to be not sinful and shameful, but rather holy and beautiful. Clearly, there is considerable support for such views at the highest levels of the Church in Rome. But they can't square the circle. It's impossible to reconcile the notion that homosexual acts are a positive good with not only with historical, Biblical Christianity but also with natural law. So, what happens when a seemingly unstoppable force (LGBT) meets an immovable object (Catholic teaching on homosexual acts)? Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that we are heading for a civil war on this issue, much like the Episcopalians/Anglicans before us.
I think if we all listen to the requests of Our Lady of Fatima, pray the rosary daily, make the Five First Saturdays, and offer our sufferings for the conversion of sinners, we will see a lot of this stuff disappear. And if not, I think we can expect a nuclear World War III. Our choice.
***"Canon law stipulates that a homily is “reserved to a priest or deacon” and “must be given at all Masses on Sundays and holy days of obligation which are celebrated with a congregation.”
While the parish did not refer to the men’s reflection as a homily, it came after the Gospel reading -when the homily usually takes place - and immediately ahead of a blessing for fathers, and then the recitation of the Creed."***
This is citing Can. 767 but the issue of the gay partners aside, prior to that Can. 766 states "Lay persons can be permitted to preach in a church or oratory, if necessity requires it in certain circumstances or it seems advantageous in particular cases, according to the prescripts of the conference of bishops and without prejudice to can. 767, §1."
I'm wondering if this allowance has been utilized in the Church today where necessary or if it has laid dormant thus far?
One thing I’ve noticed recently:
People are going to point out the hypocrisy of allowing this versus the marginalization of traditional Catholics. (E.g. “WHILE THE E.F. IS MARGINALIZED THE POPE LETS THIS HAPPEN GOD FORBID A REVERENT LITURGY IS ALLOWED ETC ETC ETC”) Yes, I agree. People need to realize that this is not an effective response! We can point this out all day, but it absolutely won’t change the situation.
It’s the exact same situation as: Radical leftists, when confronted with the hypocrisy of the disappearance of women’s sports through the inevitable dominance of them by males pretending to be females, absolutely [do] [not] [care]. We need to get more creative. We can’t point out hypocrisy AND assume that those we express the opinion to are concerned about hypocrisy. They aren’t.
Liturgy is "public work." The Mass must be a celebration that is open to all, including those of the same sex who identify with the LBGTQ lifestyle. However, with that said, the focus of the liturgy is our participation in Christ' redemptive sacrifice and the proclamation of the Word of God. The liturgy is not an experiment open to new innovations by priest, or laity, who want to become innovators of a new liturgy that changes the rubrics in order to satisfy one's desire for change. The homily is Christ speaking to us in the person of the priest or deacon (In Persona Christi) not two lay people needing to express themselves and their take on the gospel. The clergy that allowed those two men to come and offer their thoughts on the gospel and testimony as gay men should be disciplined. Moreover, the clergy that allowed them to speak should also offer statement of clarification as to what canon law teaches about the Mass and why it should only be a priest or deacon to give the homily. The clarification has nothing to do with those two men identifying themselves as gay men, but rather, everything to do with Christ and the priesthood!
On a final note, we, as Catholics should welcome our brothers and sister in Christ who identify themselves as "gay", even if we are uncomfortable with their choices, however, whether gay or straight, we are all called to live in a state grace. God is merciful, but He is also Just! We must ALL obey His commandments, for our own good, so that we might remain in the peace of Christ and in His Truth: "and you shall know the truth, and truth will make you free" (Jn 8:32).
Was there an actual homily by a priest or deacon? I could be wrong but I think a homily is required on Sundays.
When we see the faith being manipulated to serve the world in these grotesque ways, many Catholics, myself included, after the initial shock and anger, begin to say "well, for all that, the doctrine is still unchanging, we still have Christ's promise that the gates of Hell will not prevail." In reflecting on this, I am reminded of how Israel thought that there was no way that Jerusalem could fall, because it had the temple, it was the seat of God. The prophets called the people of Israel to holiness to no avail and of course Jerusalem did fall and the temple destroyed and while God stayed true to His covenant with His people, it looked quite different than they had hoped. We cannot see things like this and sit back easy and imagine that because we have true doctrine that this can be allowed. That doctrine does little good inscribed in a book and not upon our hearts, dead on a page instead of alive in our parishes. I see this pandering to the world and honestly fear. Not that Christ will be unfaithful to His word, which is impossible, but rather that God will allow us to lose everything before He loses His Church. If our parishes have lost their savor and can no longer be salt for the earth, they will be trampled underfoot. If they do not bear good fruit for the Kingdom, they will be cut off from the True Vine and tossed to the fire. God will not be mocked and when we use His Church to spread lies, to lead lambs astray, that is what we do, we mock God. I don't have a great answer to what to do with this situation, it's for Cardinal Cupich to act or not, but I do know that this cannot be tolerated and that we as individuals must seek God, to become holy. I am not sure what lies ahead, but God is holy and His Church will either serve His purpose, or be allowed to become a windswept shadow of itself so that a faithful remnant may rebuild.
"I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself: ‘You have chastised me, and I was chastised, like an untrained bull; restore me, and I will return, for You are the Lord my God." Jeremiah 31:18
Maybe the most scandalous thing is that the entire congregation didn’t stand up and walk out on such a sacrilegious “homily.” The sooner we acknowledge that many (most?) Catholics don’t believe the Catholic faith, the better off we will be. And maybe we already do this, and I’m honestly not sure how it would affect the Church’s ministry/governance. For a start, I think any priest who openly flaunts the Church’s teaching should have faculties (all faculties) removed until he repents in sackcloth. This means some parishes would have no priest, which many would blame their bishop for, but in reality it would be the fault of the priest for his lack of faith and/or poor formation.
There are still many faithful Catholics (and priests) in our country, thanks be to God.
Lord have mercy on us all…
“Stupidity is not a sin, but sin makes up stupid” - My grandfather
This is just sad. "Raises doctrinal, liturgical questions--" ya think??? Cardinal Cupich may be popular in Rome, but Chicago is a mess.
Nearly thirty years a priest. IN-valuable lesson learned……bishops do what they want.
St. Joseph pray for us!!!!!
At what point does it become appropriate to call a spade a spade?
This isn't one bit surprising....sadly. My (formerly--I moved out of state) northwestern suburban parish had a fantastic music director. He was asked to leave because he married another man. He wound up at.....of course, Old St. Patrick's, as the music director. Now the president of my children's alma mater, a Jesuit college prep school in the northern Chicago suburbs will be the new pastor at Old St. Pat's beginning July 1st. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on things to see how he manages this parish. I don't think the has a chance in dialing things back. He's not in the country at the moment, but I don't doubt he's aware of this. I almost got married there but they were refurbishing the frescos so we married at Holy Name Cathedral. I'm SO grateful I'm no longer in the Chicago archdiocese. It's fallen so fast under Cupich.
I used to go to this parish (Old St Pat's) before I found a more reverent and traditional parish. I've seen other laity give homilies in the past and not just on Father's Day. At this parish it feels like the main attraction is the "concert" and not the Eucharist. Few people genuflect while entering pews or in front of the Blessed Sacrament. The congregation doesn't kneel during the consecration. Mostly everyone receives the Eucharist so I’m not sure they know or wish to follow the Catholic teaching. Reconciliation is only one day a week for 40 minutes and it’s not emphasized. Homilies are focused on social issues rather than scripture. At a retreat, a priest gave the Eucharist to everyone even if they weren’t Catholic. I’ve attended RCIA meetings where leadership knowingly contradicted church teachings. They attempt to be inclusive of everyone, but seem to leave out reverence to the Lord.
Altar desecrated. Not a true Catholic Mass, congregation or church.
Let's face it... there are large swaths of the Catholic Church (in the western world) that have gone full-Episcopalian on the issue of homosexuality, considering homosexual acts and relationships predicated thereon to be not sinful and shameful, but rather holy and beautiful. Clearly, there is considerable support for such views at the highest levels of the Church in Rome. But they can't square the circle. It's impossible to reconcile the notion that homosexual acts are a positive good with not only with historical, Biblical Christianity but also with natural law. So, what happens when a seemingly unstoppable force (LGBT) meets an immovable object (Catholic teaching on homosexual acts)? Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that we are heading for a civil war on this issue, much like the Episcopalians/Anglicans before us.
I think if we all listen to the requests of Our Lady of Fatima, pray the rosary daily, make the Five First Saturdays, and offer our sufferings for the conversion of sinners, we will see a lot of this stuff disappear. And if not, I think we can expect a nuclear World War III. Our choice.
***"Canon law stipulates that a homily is “reserved to a priest or deacon” and “must be given at all Masses on Sundays and holy days of obligation which are celebrated with a congregation.”
While the parish did not refer to the men’s reflection as a homily, it came after the Gospel reading -when the homily usually takes place - and immediately ahead of a blessing for fathers, and then the recitation of the Creed."***
This is citing Can. 767 but the issue of the gay partners aside, prior to that Can. 766 states "Lay persons can be permitted to preach in a church or oratory, if necessity requires it in certain circumstances or it seems advantageous in particular cases, according to the prescripts of the conference of bishops and without prejudice to can. 767, §1."
I'm wondering if this allowance has been utilized in the Church today where necessary or if it has laid dormant thus far?