What about the legality of denying baptism to someone on the basis of the vaccination status of their parents because that also is part of this, isn't it? At what point does the Church say the ends don't justify the means? The discrimination and denial of the sacraments to an entire group of people is justified by public health orders?
As has been noted in many places, churches, and especially Catholic churches in Canada, have no been vectors of transmission. Sure, the church is in a tough spot, but the faithful are right to wonder if the Church will ever speak up against a state that continues to encroach it's power at every level of live.
What's the big deal about getting vaccinated for Covid? Are people evaluating all vaccines and all legal requirements for them too? Other than emotional suspicion, there aren't any proven good reasons against it and plenty supporting it. Too many are doing what they say they abhor in politicians, trying to appease unreasonable people. The Church is walking that tightrope. Let it try various alternative approaches like everyone else.
Shared. I'm getting so sick of all the drama over COVID. One one hand you have (generally speaking) various conservative factions falling into hysteria (calling the vaccine the jab) and on the other hand you have other factions that seem far more content with nearly draconian restrictions (the dioceses that essentially prohibited confessions during the beginning of the lockdown come to mind). I know we are not Anglicans, but come on, how can we not find a "via media" people?
I got a subscription for my little Eve while she was still in utero. I can verify she never seems to mind the newsletters coming to me and not her inbox. Babies are naturally magnanimous :)
I wholeheartedly support calls for charity and understanding towards diocesan workers who are just trying to do their best. That being said, a Bishop denying non-vaccinated Catholics (and I’m vaccinated, FWIW) the ability to worship at Mass full stop- no provisions for separate spaces to attend or other options like masking or negative tests seems pretty draconian to me. So many priests I know have gone above and beyond over the last year to provide the Sacraments, even during lockdowns, even to those with Covid, even while observing and obeying masking/distance/sanitary protocols, that although I recognize the need and desire to protect congregations from outbreaks this feels like such an opposite mentality from the people making the rules.
Anyway, thanks for addressing the issue and I definitely recommend The Pillar any chance I get! (I’m not on social media so my “sharing” platforms are limited)
Great reporting! The Archbishop of Moncton is between the proverbial rock and hard place in a country that is highly anti religion. Question: did he dispense the unvaccinated from their Mass obligation? I certainly hope so. He cannot mandate anyone to get vaccinated—that is clearly immoral—but prohibiting them from assisting at Mass demands a dispensation from the obligation.
I absolutely love the work you are doing at the Pillar. You always make me think and question my own assumptions, all while being within the confines of the Church. Please keep it up!!
As I’m sure the rest of the world knows, the price we pay for living in the beautiful land down under is that the wildlife is constantly trying to kill us. Few things highlight this more than the fact that - as pointed out by JD during the podcast - even the platypus, that cute, scared little weird guy of our native fauna, has a built-in, poison-tipped “shiv” - just in case the right opportunity arises.
What is most disturbing to me about the Moncton law is that it doesn't apply to anyone who *can't* get vaccinated, i.e., to children and those with a medical waiver. It's one thing to shut down churches for *everyone* as a pandemic rages (even if you think that's it's not necessary). I think it's an entirely different thing when you shut the churches down (and the Sacraments) for certain people as a *punitive* measure, which this seems to be. It's saying, "if you could be vaccinated and are choosing not to, then you cannot receive the sacraments. If you can't receive the vaccine for reasons OTHER than a choice, then come on in!" I simply can't see how this is not punitive if it's not JUST aimed at unvaccinated people. Instead, it's aimed at unvaccinated people who CHOOSE not to be vaccinated.
So, it is indisputably the case that a certain class of people is being denied the Sacraments (except in perhaps extraordinary circumstances) precisely because of a *choice*. It seems shocking to think that someone could be denied the sacraments (for all intents and purposes) because of a choice they made that is NOT considered immoral.
So, JD, I would be interested to hear your opinion on this. Can someone be denied the sacraments because of a choice they make that is *not* considered to be immoral?
I appreciate the insight you bring to these issues like Vatican mandates or what the Pope said this time that often times are inaccurately reported in other news sources. In a world where scandal seems the norm you guys bring a more reasoned take on things. Much appreciated.
When it comes to sharing I'm sure my wife and parents are tired of me talking about what ol' JD and Ed "...you know, those guys from the Pillar" have to say about anything.
What about the legality of denying baptism to someone on the basis of the vaccination status of their parents because that also is part of this, isn't it? At what point does the Church say the ends don't justify the means? The discrimination and denial of the sacraments to an entire group of people is justified by public health orders?
As has been noted in many places, churches, and especially Catholic churches in Canada, have no been vectors of transmission. Sure, the church is in a tough spot, but the faithful are right to wonder if the Church will ever speak up against a state that continues to encroach it's power at every level of live.
What's the big deal about getting vaccinated for Covid? Are people evaluating all vaccines and all legal requirements for them too? Other than emotional suspicion, there aren't any proven good reasons against it and plenty supporting it. Too many are doing what they say they abhor in politicians, trying to appease unreasonable people. The Church is walking that tightrope. Let it try various alternative approaches like everyone else.
Shared. I'm getting so sick of all the drama over COVID. One one hand you have (generally speaking) various conservative factions falling into hysteria (calling the vaccine the jab) and on the other hand you have other factions that seem far more content with nearly draconian restrictions (the dioceses that essentially prohibited confessions during the beginning of the lockdown come to mind). I know we are not Anglicans, but come on, how can we not find a "via media" people?
Shared. Love your subscription. Enjoy the variety of topics
I got a subscription for my little Eve while she was still in utero. I can verify she never seems to mind the newsletters coming to me and not her inbox. Babies are naturally magnanimous :)
I wholeheartedly support calls for charity and understanding towards diocesan workers who are just trying to do their best. That being said, a Bishop denying non-vaccinated Catholics (and I’m vaccinated, FWIW) the ability to worship at Mass full stop- no provisions for separate spaces to attend or other options like masking or negative tests seems pretty draconian to me. So many priests I know have gone above and beyond over the last year to provide the Sacraments, even during lockdowns, even to those with Covid, even while observing and obeying masking/distance/sanitary protocols, that although I recognize the need and desire to protect congregations from outbreaks this feels like such an opposite mentality from the people making the rules.
Anyway, thanks for addressing the issue and I definitely recommend The Pillar any chance I get! (I’m not on social media so my “sharing” platforms are limited)
Great reporting! The Archbishop of Moncton is between the proverbial rock and hard place in a country that is highly anti religion. Question: did he dispense the unvaccinated from their Mass obligation? I certainly hope so. He cannot mandate anyone to get vaccinated—that is clearly immoral—but prohibiting them from assisting at Mass demands a dispensation from the obligation.
I absolutely love the work you are doing at the Pillar. You always make me think and question my own assumptions, all while being within the confines of the Church. Please keep it up!!
Shared to the Facebook & the Twitters.
As I’m sure the rest of the world knows, the price we pay for living in the beautiful land down under is that the wildlife is constantly trying to kill us. Few things highlight this more than the fact that - as pointed out by JD during the podcast - even the platypus, that cute, scared little weird guy of our native fauna, has a built-in, poison-tipped “shiv” - just in case the right opportunity arises.
My first contact. Literate, civil, hip content-- thanks!
What is most disturbing to me about the Moncton law is that it doesn't apply to anyone who *can't* get vaccinated, i.e., to children and those with a medical waiver. It's one thing to shut down churches for *everyone* as a pandemic rages (even if you think that's it's not necessary). I think it's an entirely different thing when you shut the churches down (and the Sacraments) for certain people as a *punitive* measure, which this seems to be. It's saying, "if you could be vaccinated and are choosing not to, then you cannot receive the sacraments. If you can't receive the vaccine for reasons OTHER than a choice, then come on in!" I simply can't see how this is not punitive if it's not JUST aimed at unvaccinated people. Instead, it's aimed at unvaccinated people who CHOOSE not to be vaccinated.
So, it is indisputably the case that a certain class of people is being denied the Sacraments (except in perhaps extraordinary circumstances) precisely because of a *choice*. It seems shocking to think that someone could be denied the sacraments (for all intents and purposes) because of a choice they made that is NOT considered immoral.
So, JD, I would be interested to hear your opinion on this. Can someone be denied the sacraments because of a choice they make that is *not* considered to be immoral?
I appreciate the insight you bring to these issues like Vatican mandates or what the Pope said this time that often times are inaccurately reported in other news sources. In a world where scandal seems the norm you guys bring a more reasoned take on things. Much appreciated.
When it comes to sharing I'm sure my wife and parents are tired of me talking about what ol' JD and Ed "...you know, those guys from the Pillar" have to say about anything.
Shared!
shared