“The second risk, which I consider more serious, is that by getting deeply involved in ways of fixing environmental problems, as well as being involved in tackling other earthly issues, the Church can forget its mission to preach the Gospel, and give in to the utopian temptation of trying to create heaven on earth."
lame binaries. protecting the environment is part of the Gospel. heaven on earth? yes please. immanentize the shit out of the eschaton. come, Lord Jesus.
I have never heard of “Economy of Francesco – an initiative launched by Pope Francis to rethink the global economy”. What a lame idea. Every second spent trying to do something impossible would be better spent praying.
With the organizers obsessing over converting people to the high church of net-zero, it's little wonder they "don't want to convert the young people to Christ or to the Catholic Church or anything like that at all"...
Well-chosen quotes that present all sides. I especially liked the mother who remarked that the language of the next generation is different from hers, yet it's important to speak to them. I find this to be challenging in my own life on varying topics. It's too easy for our children to misunderstand us because of semantics.
Maybe concentrate more on increasing authentic evangelization, encouraging frequent reception of the Sacraments and daily prayer and work harder, with the help of God, to bring the light of the Gospel to a lonely and darker world. This seems to me to be why Christ came and the purpose of the Church.
While these expensive mob gatherings can bear much fruit (inspiring some to answer the call to deeper holiness as well as vocations to the Gospel states of life) locally/regionally produced gatherings can help greatly in the sustainability of these gifts.
6500 tonnes must be a misprint, or maybe Portuguese number formatting. A flight across the US is about 1 t. Is it 6500 kg? That would still be about 3/4 of the US per capita annual contribution.
Also, not eating meat is not the latest moralizing fad, but a pretty early one. St. Anthony of Egypt abstained from meat. Abstinence used to be mandatory in the west for many more than two days a year. The Dormition fast is about to begin for Christians in the Eastern Rites. Turns out what's good for the planet may also be good for the body and the soul, too.
It’s metric tonnes, not imperial. The US is the only nation state to still use imperial in any kind of frequency. Micronesia is REALLY far away and it’s so small it can fit large jets, only smaller island hoppers. I’d fully believe that all those flights added up would be a pretty extraordinary number.
But that being said, how else are they supposed to get there in a reasonable time? Boats would take 4 months minimum.
Currently there are 7 days of required abstinence in the normal Church calendar, the 6 Fridays in Lent and Ash Wednesday. Abstinence is overridden by the joy of Solemnities, so if a Solemnity falls on one of those Fridays one can and probably should eat meat.
> “I don’t think we bought anything for the offices. Everything was either donated or reconditioned. There is no disposable cutlery or dishes, we bring everything from home, to avoid waste, or wash them ourselves,” Madureira explained.
Since I have just finished rereading Happy Are You Poor (Fr. Dubay), a deeply unsettling book, I am going to recommend that everyone else also reread it because I like to have company when I am deeply unsettled.
Most "green"-type individual actions are also "voluntary poverty for the sake of the kingdom"-type individual actions, and it is just a question of what end you have in mind whenever you are using a means that could be described as both. If you want to stop buying unnecessary things (or you want to have Meatless Mondays) because you want to save the planet because you love your neighbor as yourself, that is good and the "world" will approve of you, except for the part of the world that was trying to sell you those things (it will get over it, though, and immediately try to sell you greenwashed things instead). If you want to stop buying unnecessary things (or you want to give up meat on ferial days) because you want to clear out a large empty space in your heart because you want to make room for God to take over your entire life, that is radical and edgy and the "world" will give you side eye (if only it knew) even though it is exactly the same action.
God will actually put a foot in the door and move in to any space that He can plausibly imagine (or charitably pretend) that you have cleared out for Him, I am fairly certain, but I think that He will do it with greater vigor if you really did intend to do it for Him (partly because then you are also trying not to be attached to "greenness" in addition to not being attached to visible tangible created things; but partly for other reasons that I do not have a grip on right now.)
Thanks for the recommendation. I too have observed the fact that the green nuts (an endearing Australian term for hardcore fan) are doing all the things their great- grandparents did because they were poor and had no choice and abstinence practices that their great grandparents did because they were faithful and that’s what you did but have dressed up as a ‘identity’ and all the hollow signalling that goes with that. No wonder millennials and gen z are riddled with anxiety.
Unsettling is a great word for Fr Dubay’s book. Finished it not terribly long ago. I’ve really been chewing on many of its concepts and recognizing that in my nice shiny new Tacoma pickup is perhaps something that could be done better and more reflective of the gospel. What that is, I don’t yet know. Thus, more prayer and discernment.
The degree to which God would like to run every detail of my life (more efficiently and better and with extreme tenderness), if only I would let Him, continues to astonish me... like, there is the "tell me what You want me to do and I will do it" (very earnest prayer; it is not to be sneezed at), and then there is the qualitatively different experience of "I give up, You can just do everything for me, here are all the figurative keys to everything [tosses chatelaine's imaginary huge bunch of huge castle keys to the interior castle, as though he hasn't got it thoroughly backdoored], go do everything for me; let me know if there's anything You *need* me to do and also give me the grace to do it" (absurd, delightful; never what I would have anticipated.)
The scientists at Oak Ridge figured out how to make power from carbon dioxide. Unfortunately, it took more energy than it created, but they might still be working on it.
Green issues, gender and alphabet soup rubbish doled out by Martin SJ but not for getting the cherry on the top: DON'T MENTION JESUS CHRIST NOR THE NEED TO BE RECONCILED IN ORDER TO BE SANCTIFIED!
“Climate emergency is to the current generation of tweens what nuclear holocaust was to the generation growing up in the context of the Cold War — an all-pervasive menace lurking on the horizon, with the added stress of amplification on social media, which our generation was spared."
The Church has a different message, ultimate hope, which is directly opposed to the despair and self-loathing that the "you are responsible for global warming sinner!" ideology instills in a person.
Going along with the positive aspects of environmentalism is fine and good but ultimately the Church must combat the negativity the culture is trying to burden these young people with.
It would make sense to market green initiatives if WYD was in a country that is currently increasing the amount of carbon it is putting into the air, ie India or China, however when it is done in a first world country that is doing it’s part already to reduce it’s footprint, then it just seems like social posturing. If you really cared about this, why have the event in the first place? What are the initiatives to bring people to Christ?
Kids are coming to this event to experience Christ in his Church, period. The positive eternal value on their souls is worth way more than their supposed carbon footprint.
“The second risk, which I consider more serious, is that by getting deeply involved in ways of fixing environmental problems, as well as being involved in tackling other earthly issues, the Church can forget its mission to preach the Gospel, and give in to the utopian temptation of trying to create heaven on earth."
lame binaries. protecting the environment is part of the Gospel. heaven on earth? yes please. immanentize the shit out of the eschaton. come, Lord Jesus.
Language please, Joseph.
"Lame binaries"
The wonder of the "both/and" of the Church. Like walking and chewing gum, at the same time.
I have never heard of “Economy of Francesco – an initiative launched by Pope Francis to rethink the global economy”. What a lame idea. Every second spent trying to do something impossible would be better spent praying.
With the organizers obsessing over converting people to the high church of net-zero, it's little wonder they "don't want to convert the young people to Christ or to the Catholic Church or anything like that at all"...
Well-chosen quotes that present all sides. I especially liked the mother who remarked that the language of the next generation is different from hers, yet it's important to speak to them. I find this to be challenging in my own life on varying topics. It's too easy for our children to misunderstand us because of semantics.
Utopian ideas have always been problematic.
Yes, decrease waste, encourage recycling, plant trees.
Maybe concentrate more on increasing authentic evangelization, encouraging frequent reception of the Sacraments and daily prayer and work harder, with the help of God, to bring the light of the Gospel to a lonely and darker world. This seems to me to be why Christ came and the purpose of the Church.
While these expensive mob gatherings can bear much fruit (inspiring some to answer the call to deeper holiness as well as vocations to the Gospel states of life) locally/regionally produced gatherings can help greatly in the sustainability of these gifts.
I traveled 5,500 miles to be lectured at every turn what color bin to use for my garbage.
"[W]hen the Church gets involved, it is carrying out what has always been an important part of its mission, to fight for dignity for everyone[.]"
We fight spiritual powers. Are we supposed to fight for dignity?
I dislike this sort of rhetoric for a few reasons:
It blurs the line between virtuous causes (dignity) and virtuous methods (not fighting please).
It blurs concepts. (What exactly is dignity? What aspects of dignity need to be fought for?)
It blurs the hierarchy of ends of the Church. Which is more important (if they're separable), the spiritual or the physical? Heaven or earth?
6500 tonnes must be a misprint, or maybe Portuguese number formatting. A flight across the US is about 1 t. Is it 6500 kg? That would still be about 3/4 of the US per capita annual contribution.
Also, not eating meat is not the latest moralizing fad, but a pretty early one. St. Anthony of Egypt abstained from meat. Abstinence used to be mandatory in the west for many more than two days a year. The Dormition fast is about to begin for Christians in the Eastern Rites. Turns out what's good for the planet may also be good for the body and the soul, too.
It’s metric tonnes, not imperial. The US is the only nation state to still use imperial in any kind of frequency. Micronesia is REALLY far away and it’s so small it can fit large jets, only smaller island hoppers. I’d fully believe that all those flights added up would be a pretty extraordinary number.
But that being said, how else are they supposed to get there in a reasonable time? Boats would take 4 months minimum.
Currently there are 7 days of required abstinence in the normal Church calendar, the 6 Fridays in Lent and Ash Wednesday. Abstinence is overridden by the joy of Solemnities, so if a Solemnity falls on one of those Fridays one can and probably should eat meat.
> “I don’t think we bought anything for the offices. Everything was either donated or reconditioned. There is no disposable cutlery or dishes, we bring everything from home, to avoid waste, or wash them ourselves,” Madureira explained.
Since I have just finished rereading Happy Are You Poor (Fr. Dubay), a deeply unsettling book, I am going to recommend that everyone else also reread it because I like to have company when I am deeply unsettled.
Most "green"-type individual actions are also "voluntary poverty for the sake of the kingdom"-type individual actions, and it is just a question of what end you have in mind whenever you are using a means that could be described as both. If you want to stop buying unnecessary things (or you want to have Meatless Mondays) because you want to save the planet because you love your neighbor as yourself, that is good and the "world" will approve of you, except for the part of the world that was trying to sell you those things (it will get over it, though, and immediately try to sell you greenwashed things instead). If you want to stop buying unnecessary things (or you want to give up meat on ferial days) because you want to clear out a large empty space in your heart because you want to make room for God to take over your entire life, that is radical and edgy and the "world" will give you side eye (if only it knew) even though it is exactly the same action.
God will actually put a foot in the door and move in to any space that He can plausibly imagine (or charitably pretend) that you have cleared out for Him, I am fairly certain, but I think that He will do it with greater vigor if you really did intend to do it for Him (partly because then you are also trying not to be attached to "greenness" in addition to not being attached to visible tangible created things; but partly for other reasons that I do not have a grip on right now.)
Thanks for the recommendation. I too have observed the fact that the green nuts (an endearing Australian term for hardcore fan) are doing all the things their great- grandparents did because they were poor and had no choice and abstinence practices that their great grandparents did because they were faithful and that’s what you did but have dressed up as a ‘identity’ and all the hollow signalling that goes with that. No wonder millennials and gen z are riddled with anxiety.
Bridget, I have that book out from the library but I haven’t opened it yet! Still working on Erik Varden’s.
Unsettling is a great word for Fr Dubay’s book. Finished it not terribly long ago. I’ve really been chewing on many of its concepts and recognizing that in my nice shiny new Tacoma pickup is perhaps something that could be done better and more reflective of the gospel. What that is, I don’t yet know. Thus, more prayer and discernment.
The degree to which God would like to run every detail of my life (more efficiently and better and with extreme tenderness), if only I would let Him, continues to astonish me... like, there is the "tell me what You want me to do and I will do it" (very earnest prayer; it is not to be sneezed at), and then there is the qualitatively different experience of "I give up, You can just do everything for me, here are all the figurative keys to everything [tosses chatelaine's imaginary huge bunch of huge castle keys to the interior castle, as though he hasn't got it thoroughly backdoored], go do everything for me; let me know if there's anything You *need* me to do and also give me the grace to do it" (absurd, delightful; never what I would have anticipated.)
The scientists at Oak Ridge figured out how to make power from carbon dioxide. Unfortunately, it took more energy than it created, but they might still be working on it.
Green issues, gender and alphabet soup rubbish doled out by Martin SJ but not for getting the cherry on the top: DON'T MENTION JESUS CHRIST NOR THE NEED TO BE RECONCILED IN ORDER TO BE SANCTIFIED!
“Climate emergency is to the current generation of tweens what nuclear holocaust was to the generation growing up in the context of the Cold War — an all-pervasive menace lurking on the horizon, with the added stress of amplification on social media, which our generation was spared."
The Church has a different message, ultimate hope, which is directly opposed to the despair and self-loathing that the "you are responsible for global warming sinner!" ideology instills in a person.
Going along with the positive aspects of environmentalism is fine and good but ultimately the Church must combat the negativity the culture is trying to burden these young people with.
It would make sense to market green initiatives if WYD was in a country that is currently increasing the amount of carbon it is putting into the air, ie India or China, however when it is done in a first world country that is doing it’s part already to reduce it’s footprint, then it just seems like social posturing. If you really cared about this, why have the event in the first place? What are the initiatives to bring people to Christ?
Kids are coming to this event to experience Christ in his Church, period. The positive eternal value on their souls is worth way more than their supposed carbon footprint.