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Matthew K Michels, OblSB's avatar

This is two times in as many weeks where a secular civil court has ruled on canonical ecclesial matters.

An Indian civil court adjudicating on the rubrics of the liturgy, and now a French civil court ruling on consecrated religious community life.

I can’t recall: did the Texas state court system ever get involved in the Arlington bishop-nuns fiasco?

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Bridget's avatar

I don't recall... doing a web search on local news reports, the judge dismissed the civil case (then the lawyer for the nuns' civil case said he would appeal, but instead they appealed to the Vatican and dropped the civil angle.)

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Bisbee's avatar

Some of us carry in our families that "silly name."

The comment is offensive and has nothing to do with the situation.

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Bridget's avatar

I apologize for my offensive comment and I have edited it now.

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Fr. Paul's avatar

Wait, what's this liturgy ruling?

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Matthew K Michels, OblSB's avatar

A Munsiff court (district civil court) in India reviewed a case between the local Catholics in the region and their respective Syro-Malabar diocese, regarding the ongoing liturgy saga, and upon review ordered both parties to enter mediation.

It was mentioned in Starting Seven a week or so ago.

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David Smith's avatar

Interesting. Is this a portent of a trend in this very secular world towards governments telling churches how to govern themselves?

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William Murphy's avatar

No great surprise. Another religious order where the beloved and saintly founder may have had pelvic issues. Or demanded strange disciplinary practices. Note the Philippe brothers, OP, around the same time in France, who started their own religious movement. Apparently the boring old Dominicans were not good enough for them. And they mentored the saintly Jean Vanier who took his lady disciples in his arms....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Philippe

In fact there seem to have been any number of dodgy religious and semi-religious cults popping up in France around that time - the wartime political/religious exaltation of Joan of Arc, the extraordinary foundation of Uriage (in the mountains above Grenoble), Marthe Robin living only on the Eucharist for decades. Anti-religious French governments, revolutions galore across Europe and two world wars physically and spiritually devastating the country all fed into the mess.

And this "Dominican" setup is another "order" where the name was obviously chosen to benefit from the long established reputation of another order. Note the Silverstream monastery in Ireland which claims to be Benedictine, but is completely separate from the real OSBs. And whose founder has departed among pelvic allegations.

Maybe the Vatican will be a tad more sceptical of the next chancer claiming that the Holy Spirit has inspired his miraculous new order. I have an idea for Bill's Wonderful Jesuits where the secret Tantric ceremonies occur in my bedroom and magically transfer loads of money to my Swiss bank account. But I have no real hope of reform.

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Apr 5, 2024
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ALT's avatar

Judas spent 3 years in the company of Christ. But it did seem to have an effect on the other 11. I would not expect the Tridentine Rite to have more power to convert than that.

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ALT's avatar

Is there a running theme in the Church of people being punished, removed, or dismissed with no explanation as to why?

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David Smith's avatar

This article doesn't touch on the question of what business a French civil government has intruding itself into Church governance. Ed?

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