Bishop Christopher Saunders is charged with abusing a person under 18, though previous Church statements said accusations against him did not concern minors
With the minors thing, just about all Australian criminal codes treat anyone under the age of 16 as a minor by default. Most of Saunder’s (the sneaky bastard) victims seem to be 16 or 17 at the time of offence and at least legally in Australian law able to give consent. If I’m not mistaken, canon law considers anyone under 18 to be a minor. The confusion of “no minors were affected” in public statements may refer to the Australian legal threshold, not the canon law one.
It may be that the police have found some nasty material on Saunders computers that may not have been accessible to the Vos Esti investigation that will come to light in trial.
Australian police & the A.B.C. have zero credibility after the false & malicious persecution to which they subjected Cardinal Pell, may he rest in peace. Saunders sound like a monster in the McCarrick mold, but I do not trust any Australian police agency or the A.B.C.
With Pell there was only one witness, and substantial proof that the allegations couldn't possibly have happened. Here there would appear to be lots of witnesses to potentially criminal activity. Also, failure to obey Rome and move out of the diocese is not exactly a sign of reliability. Rupnik did the same. So did McCarrick. We shall see what happens.
The Australian justice system's integrity is virtually nonexistent, as far as I'm concerned. That doesn't mean the bishop isn't guilty of something, just that I expect to be disappointed no matter the outcome.
It's not perfect, but it does all right. I would accuse you of hyperbole to say that it's integrity is 'non-existent.' Victoria is one state in Australia, so don't tar the good men and women who work in other law enforcement agencies (especially those dealing with crimes against children) with that same brush.
I see your point, but the case against Cdl. Pell was clearly unsupported by fact or logic, and yet his conviction had to go to Australia's supreme court to get overturned. Doesn't that suggest a deeper problem than just a few fanatics in the local Victoria police and criminal court? And hasn't the problem of politicized government action against the Church been recorded elsewhere in Australia? Maybe I could still get a fair trial on a routine criminal case, but not the Church, it seems.
It’s not that straight forward. The Victorian Prosecutor didn’t want to take the case, but the Police forced their hand. Yes it had to got to the High Court, and their judgment had some choice words for the Victorian appeals court, affirming the dissenting Judge’s judgment. Victoria is a bit of an outlier in their law enforcement culture that gets them into trouble. See using a barrister as a criminal informant on their own clients, also see their pathetic inaction with the current historic sex abuse scandal at public primary school in Victoria which had half a dozen pedophile teachers abuse children and just get moved around and remain employed by the education department even after some of them were criminally convicted (sound familiar). It’s a case of “shit we looked bad so we just have to get the bastard no matter what.” And it gets them into serious trouble. One of my uncles is a fed and he was utter disgusted with the Pell situation. He’s not Catholic too! The courts did its job. It screwed up and then it fixed it. It was fairly timely as far as these things go. Even if it’s too long for the innocent.
Sorry, I did a very deep dive in Australian history back in my undergrad days and one consistent pattern that has emerged is the Victorian Police being highly prone to corruption. If you want to go back further, the manhunt for bush ranger Ned Kelly (they spuriously arrested and imprisoned his mother to try and get him to turn himself in!) and the drama of the Eureka Stockade (the closest Australia ever got to civil war) were all, in part, the result of awful and corrupt police forces followed by an arbitrary crackdown in attempt to save face or scapegoat. It’s a very human impulse more broadly.
The Australian Policing forces are not monoliths. We have state police forces and a Federal Police force based in Canberra.
The ABC does fine with factual reporting. Its editorialising are a different matter and are center-eft at minimum. They do make a point of trying to differentiate between reporting, analysis and opinion, which I don't think any other news organsation bothers with anymore amidst clickbait race to the bottom. I know journalists at the ABC and they do their best to do their job impartially. They have a bias against (what they see as) big, powerful corporations or organisations screwing over the little guy. The Catholic Church has been a big powerful organisation that did screw over the little guy. What they missed was Pell led the charge in fixing it. There's also some anti-catholic hangovers from the sectarian era prior to the 1960s. Very few practicing Catholics work at the ABC which doesn't help matters, and nor do they come from a social class that regularly encounters devout religious people of all stripes.
The Victorian Police who prosecuted Pell have a NOTORIOUS reputation for corrupt and legally questionable practices from the Ned Kelly era till now. The conspiracy minded will note how close the Pell case was to the public humiliation the Victorian Police were enduring as they used a mob barrister as a criminal informant to tell on her clients. The damage was VAST. Hundreds of cases and plenty of people in jail who shouldn't be. The West Australian Police who are running Saunder's investigation are a different kettle of fish. They've moved slowly and carefully, unlike Victoria.
The ABC is a well known Woke, Left wing organisation, who have little time for Christians, especially Catholics. One of their esteemed Reporters did an enormously incorrect and damaging " job" on Cardinal Pell. I wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt to report on anything Christian !
The News division is get generally pretty good and makes a real effort to be as neutral as they can. And own up when the stuff it up. The analysis, opinion and culture departments are very left leaning. Louise Milligan who I believe you’re referring to has been known to get more than just the Pell story wrong. There were plenty of other journos at other outlets who were just as biased. Paul Barry had a few things to say about the ABCs media coverage of the Pell when they were permitted legally to report it. The court suppression order on the whole media I think in hindsight was a mistake.
Ironically the most pro Christian ABC department is the classical radio station. And they try not to be, but when you do a Special on St Hildegard of Bingen, you can’t avoid it! That alone is worth the taxes.
"The bishop’s resignation followed a decision to step back from governance of the diocese in 2020, after accusations surfaced that he had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of Church funds on gifts for vulnerable young men, including cash, phones, alcohol, and travel."
The local archdiocese knew about the accusations earlier than 2020 - as early as April 2019. And yet Saunders was allowed to play a prominent role in the Australian Catholic Youth Festival in Perth in December 2019.
In matters of sexual morality, ours is an all but laughably hypocritical culture. It joyously celebrates homosexuals while it angrily damns paedophiles, and it refuses categorically to see any overlap between them.
With the minors thing, just about all Australian criminal codes treat anyone under the age of 16 as a minor by default. Most of Saunder’s (the sneaky bastard) victims seem to be 16 or 17 at the time of offence and at least legally in Australian law able to give consent. If I’m not mistaken, canon law considers anyone under 18 to be a minor. The confusion of “no minors were affected” in public statements may refer to the Australian legal threshold, not the canon law one.
It may be that the police have found some nasty material on Saunders computers that may not have been accessible to the Vos Esti investigation that will come to light in trial.
Australian police & the A.B.C. have zero credibility after the false & malicious persecution to which they subjected Cardinal Pell, may he rest in peace. Saunders sound like a monster in the McCarrick mold, but I do not trust any Australian police agency or the A.B.C.
With Pell there was only one witness, and substantial proof that the allegations couldn't possibly have happened. Here there would appear to be lots of witnesses to potentially criminal activity. Also, failure to obey Rome and move out of the diocese is not exactly a sign of reliability. Rupnik did the same. So did McCarrick. We shall see what happens.
The Australian justice system's integrity is virtually nonexistent, as far as I'm concerned. That doesn't mean the bishop isn't guilty of something, just that I expect to be disappointed no matter the outcome.
It's not perfect, but it does all right. I would accuse you of hyperbole to say that it's integrity is 'non-existent.' Victoria is one state in Australia, so don't tar the good men and women who work in other law enforcement agencies (especially those dealing with crimes against children) with that same brush.
I see your point, but the case against Cdl. Pell was clearly unsupported by fact or logic, and yet his conviction had to go to Australia's supreme court to get overturned. Doesn't that suggest a deeper problem than just a few fanatics in the local Victoria police and criminal court? And hasn't the problem of politicized government action against the Church been recorded elsewhere in Australia? Maybe I could still get a fair trial on a routine criminal case, but not the Church, it seems.
It’s not that straight forward. The Victorian Prosecutor didn’t want to take the case, but the Police forced their hand. Yes it had to got to the High Court, and their judgment had some choice words for the Victorian appeals court, affirming the dissenting Judge’s judgment. Victoria is a bit of an outlier in their law enforcement culture that gets them into trouble. See using a barrister as a criminal informant on their own clients, also see their pathetic inaction with the current historic sex abuse scandal at public primary school in Victoria which had half a dozen pedophile teachers abuse children and just get moved around and remain employed by the education department even after some of them were criminally convicted (sound familiar). It’s a case of “shit we looked bad so we just have to get the bastard no matter what.” And it gets them into serious trouble. One of my uncles is a fed and he was utter disgusted with the Pell situation. He’s not Catholic too! The courts did its job. It screwed up and then it fixed it. It was fairly timely as far as these things go. Even if it’s too long for the innocent.
That's really helpful, thank you.
Sorry, I did a very deep dive in Australian history back in my undergrad days and one consistent pattern that has emerged is the Victorian Police being highly prone to corruption. If you want to go back further, the manhunt for bush ranger Ned Kelly (they spuriously arrested and imprisoned his mother to try and get him to turn himself in!) and the drama of the Eureka Stockade (the closest Australia ever got to civil war) were all, in part, the result of awful and corrupt police forces followed by an arbitrary crackdown in attempt to save face or scapegoat. It’s a very human impulse more broadly.
The Australian Policing forces are not monoliths. We have state police forces and a Federal Police force based in Canberra.
The ABC does fine with factual reporting. Its editorialising are a different matter and are center-eft at minimum. They do make a point of trying to differentiate between reporting, analysis and opinion, which I don't think any other news organsation bothers with anymore amidst clickbait race to the bottom. I know journalists at the ABC and they do their best to do their job impartially. They have a bias against (what they see as) big, powerful corporations or organisations screwing over the little guy. The Catholic Church has been a big powerful organisation that did screw over the little guy. What they missed was Pell led the charge in fixing it. There's also some anti-catholic hangovers from the sectarian era prior to the 1960s. Very few practicing Catholics work at the ABC which doesn't help matters, and nor do they come from a social class that regularly encounters devout religious people of all stripes.
The Victorian Police who prosecuted Pell have a NOTORIOUS reputation for corrupt and legally questionable practices from the Ned Kelly era till now. The conspiracy minded will note how close the Pell case was to the public humiliation the Victorian Police were enduring as they used a mob barrister as a criminal informant to tell on her clients. The damage was VAST. Hundreds of cases and plenty of people in jail who shouldn't be. The West Australian Police who are running Saunder's investigation are a different kettle of fish. They've moved slowly and carefully, unlike Victoria.
The ABC is a well known Woke, Left wing organisation, who have little time for Christians, especially Catholics. One of their esteemed Reporters did an enormously incorrect and damaging " job" on Cardinal Pell. I wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt to report on anything Christian !
The News division is get generally pretty good and makes a real effort to be as neutral as they can. And own up when the stuff it up. The analysis, opinion and culture departments are very left leaning. Louise Milligan who I believe you’re referring to has been known to get more than just the Pell story wrong. There were plenty of other journos at other outlets who were just as biased. Paul Barry had a few things to say about the ABCs media coverage of the Pell when they were permitted legally to report it. The court suppression order on the whole media I think in hindsight was a mistake.
Ironically the most pro Christian ABC department is the classical radio station. And they try not to be, but when you do a Special on St Hildegard of Bingen, you can’t avoid it! That alone is worth the taxes.
"The bishop’s resignation followed a decision to step back from governance of the diocese in 2020, after accusations surfaced that he had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of Church funds on gifts for vulnerable young men, including cash, phones, alcohol, and travel."
The local archdiocese knew about the accusations earlier than 2020 - as early as April 2019. And yet Saunders was allowed to play a prominent role in the Australian Catholic Youth Festival in Perth in December 2019.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-04/concerns-raised-over-ongoing-broome-bishop-investigation/12420234
In matters of sexual morality, ours is an all but laughably hypocritical culture. It joyously celebrates homosexuals while it angrily damns paedophiles, and it refuses categorically to see any overlap between them.