I would not go, especially because of this "...which clerics in China told The Pillar were likely aimed at creating a 'pretext' for arresting foreign nationals for religious activity..." If citizens from within perceive that they're already looking for more excuses to arrest people based on religious activity, I'm sure they'll look for other ways to arrest foreign visitors down the line.
I spent quite a bit of time in China 2018-2020ish and in the very large cities, there was usually a Mass labeled "foreigners" (or sometimes marked "English" on the schedule but not actually in English) somewhere relatively easy to find; but not in 2nd tier cities. I would also think twice about going now.
Sure China continues its totalitarian control of religion within its borders and hinders any semblance of freedom of worship. But at least Rome gets to rubber stamp episcopal appointments shortly before they are announced…
Reminders about the fruits of McCarrick's role here aside, this is a total continual embarassment for +Parolin, who has been pushing his Vatican-China status quo for, like what , seven years now? What a clown +Parolin is. If you think that's harsh: how can anyone take this man seriously anymore? +Parolin is the chief architect of not only the mythical "Vatican-China Deal" (an agreement I've started to doubt even exists), but also the broader relationship that currently exists between the two states. And +Parolin has been embarassed again. and again. and again. and again. Not once has +Parolin ever been vindicated that his "amazing-super-awesome deal" is actually a positive respectable arrangement. And he's doubled- and tripled-down on this thing!
Either: 1) +Parolin is a total imbecile who has naively deluded himself into thinking the CCP is a benevolent and transparent and honest institution, or 2) +Parolin is a pathetic and weak figure who has no influence or sway while the CCP laughs in his face as they defy him like a bully on a playground, "what are you gonna do about it, twerp?", or 3) the CCP has significant influence over internal Vatican affairs in Rome (which was already true in the past - the CCP had forced St. John Paull II to forego the canonization of a number of more modern Chinese martyrs).
Rome should have effective responses ready for any infringements and take them. Like sending local language webcasts, broadcasts, and publications of popular Catholic authors and news programs to China.
The CCP policy on religion has never changed (despite what people deemed a “relaxation” about 20 years ago) – it has always been seen as subordinate to the party’s governance, and the reason there was some prima facie relaxation in the Jiang and Hu eras is because they consider religions to be good agents of social cohesion and can keep people entertained, but all along sermons are not allowed for certain books/chapters of the Bible.
Even in pre-2019 Hong Kong, all “religious leaders” are obliged to go to the China Liaison Office once or twice a year to meet officials from the CCP Committee for Religion (loose translation here), where the latest party directions are disseminated. The meeting is held behind closed doors and no phones, recording equipment or notetaking are allowed, though I once heard some clips and read parts of the speeches that people have memorised and regurgitated right after the meeting. The directions are pretty much the same every year, pursue “Sinicization” by making sure religion is compatible with “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics” etc, though there is a marked difference in the level of detail re implementation since the 2014 Umbrella Movement.
In happier times (pre-Xi), Christian church leaders pay lip service only, and there is an understanding that Hong Kong churches will send missionaries/do mission trips to assist their counterparts in China, and as long as the Hong Kong visitors aren’t too disruptive they’ll turn a blind eye, as the establishment at that time see it as a good way to build bridges between Hong Kongers and mainland Chinese, with the end goal of peaceful integration by 2047. Everything has changed under Xi as he takes a more visible approach, and my (evangelical) church had to cancel regular visit trips for the safety of the church we visit in China - it was a so-called state church but the people there aren’t particularly patriotic, it’s just because it’s the only church in the town/village. All visits had to be done inconspicuously and in small groups, and the CCP went all out by making it illegal to “proselytise children”, ie grandparents can’t bring their grandchildren to church (parents are often away in metropolitan cities in factories and separated from their children), and for families that live together, children aren’t allowed to be given bible classes etc. When I visited a Christian orphanage in 2016/7 we had to shut the curtains and lock the door and speak in low voices when we prayed with some of the staff because there is a CCP member amongst the staff that was keeping an eye on everyone.
I was still a Protestant back then so I’m not very familiar with how the state of the Catholic Church in China was, but I would expect similar things as they are a bigger target.
Hopefully someone will stop the wishful thinking that the CCP will reciprocate any kindness or is open to actual negotiation - they almost always end up taking advantage of other’s kindness and strong arm it to their advantage. Their understanding of win-win is winning twice, not a good situation for both sides.
ps. the Anglicans in Hong Kong are now generally considered the “good church” because the prelate toes the party line closely. The Chinese gov used to treat the Anglican clergy like kings during meetings and you can actually see how the Anglican church in Hong Kong fell under their spell. I pray the same doesn’t happen for those involved in the Vatican-China talks.
Thanks for the reminder, Brian.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/39388/archbishop-mccarricks-unofficial-role-in-vatican-china-relations
But if we were chasing all the fruits of Uncle Ted, we would be here all year....
There’s a repeat paragraph about 30% of the way in. Good article and analysis.
Does this mean that
the Vatican is quietly modifying the view that China is a witness to Catholic social teaching? It was seven years ago.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/37694/vatican-official-praises-china-for-witness-to-catholic-social-teaching
I am thinking of visiting mainland China soon. But I may rethink the idea if I have to be hyper conscious about any church I enter.
I would not go, especially because of this "...which clerics in China told The Pillar were likely aimed at creating a 'pretext' for arresting foreign nationals for religious activity..." If citizens from within perceive that they're already looking for more excuses to arrest people based on religious activity, I'm sure they'll look for other ways to arrest foreign visitors down the line.
I spent quite a bit of time in China 2018-2020ish and in the very large cities, there was usually a Mass labeled "foreigners" (or sometimes marked "English" on the schedule but not actually in English) somewhere relatively easy to find; but not in 2nd tier cities. I would also think twice about going now.
Sure China continues its totalitarian control of religion within its borders and hinders any semblance of freedom of worship. But at least Rome gets to rubber stamp episcopal appointments shortly before they are announced…
Reminders about the fruits of McCarrick's role here aside, this is a total continual embarassment for +Parolin, who has been pushing his Vatican-China status quo for, like what , seven years now? What a clown +Parolin is. If you think that's harsh: how can anyone take this man seriously anymore? +Parolin is the chief architect of not only the mythical "Vatican-China Deal" (an agreement I've started to doubt even exists), but also the broader relationship that currently exists between the two states. And +Parolin has been embarassed again. and again. and again. and again. Not once has +Parolin ever been vindicated that his "amazing-super-awesome deal" is actually a positive respectable arrangement. And he's doubled- and tripled-down on this thing!
Either: 1) +Parolin is a total imbecile who has naively deluded himself into thinking the CCP is a benevolent and transparent and honest institution, or 2) +Parolin is a pathetic and weak figure who has no influence or sway while the CCP laughs in his face as they defy him like a bully on a playground, "what are you gonna do about it, twerp?", or 3) the CCP has significant influence over internal Vatican affairs in Rome (which was already true in the past - the CCP had forced St. John Paull II to forego the canonization of a number of more modern Chinese martyrs).
As for me? I'd say it's all of the above.
Rome should have effective responses ready for any infringements and take them. Like sending local language webcasts, broadcasts, and publications of popular Catholic authors and news programs to China.
Note also that the timing coincides with the HF health problems.
Chinese totalitarian government continues to do Chinese totalitarian government things.
Vatican bureaucrats and the Roman Curia are the only people on the entire planet surprised.
The CCP policy on religion has never changed (despite what people deemed a “relaxation” about 20 years ago) – it has always been seen as subordinate to the party’s governance, and the reason there was some prima facie relaxation in the Jiang and Hu eras is because they consider religions to be good agents of social cohesion and can keep people entertained, but all along sermons are not allowed for certain books/chapters of the Bible.
Even in pre-2019 Hong Kong, all “religious leaders” are obliged to go to the China Liaison Office once or twice a year to meet officials from the CCP Committee for Religion (loose translation here), where the latest party directions are disseminated. The meeting is held behind closed doors and no phones, recording equipment or notetaking are allowed, though I once heard some clips and read parts of the speeches that people have memorised and regurgitated right after the meeting. The directions are pretty much the same every year, pursue “Sinicization” by making sure religion is compatible with “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics” etc, though there is a marked difference in the level of detail re implementation since the 2014 Umbrella Movement.
In happier times (pre-Xi), Christian church leaders pay lip service only, and there is an understanding that Hong Kong churches will send missionaries/do mission trips to assist their counterparts in China, and as long as the Hong Kong visitors aren’t too disruptive they’ll turn a blind eye, as the establishment at that time see it as a good way to build bridges between Hong Kongers and mainland Chinese, with the end goal of peaceful integration by 2047. Everything has changed under Xi as he takes a more visible approach, and my (evangelical) church had to cancel regular visit trips for the safety of the church we visit in China - it was a so-called state church but the people there aren’t particularly patriotic, it’s just because it’s the only church in the town/village. All visits had to be done inconspicuously and in small groups, and the CCP went all out by making it illegal to “proselytise children”, ie grandparents can’t bring their grandchildren to church (parents are often away in metropolitan cities in factories and separated from their children), and for families that live together, children aren’t allowed to be given bible classes etc. When I visited a Christian orphanage in 2016/7 we had to shut the curtains and lock the door and speak in low voices when we prayed with some of the staff because there is a CCP member amongst the staff that was keeping an eye on everyone.
I was still a Protestant back then so I’m not very familiar with how the state of the Catholic Church in China was, but I would expect similar things as they are a bigger target.
Hopefully someone will stop the wishful thinking that the CCP will reciprocate any kindness or is open to actual negotiation - they almost always end up taking advantage of other’s kindness and strong arm it to their advantage. Their understanding of win-win is winning twice, not a good situation for both sides.
ps. the Anglicans in Hong Kong are now generally considered the “good church” because the prelate toes the party line closely. The Chinese gov used to treat the Anglican clergy like kings during meetings and you can actually see how the Anglican church in Hong Kong fell under their spell. I pray the same doesn’t happen for those involved in the Vatican-China talks.