I think black walnut would be the pricey American wood.
I like the tri-coffin tradition :(
Also a big fan of Ed's "conclave selects the resting place" idea, although I don't believe it would take more than about 2 conclaves for everyone to figure out what the symbolism of each location would be. Certainly not centuries.
I agree with Ed. re the legal declaration being made in the chapel before the Blessed Sacrament. He is a sovereign and the vicar of Christ. It fits. I don’t like the tossing of the the three coffins custom. I don’t think it’s inappropriate for the pontiff to be buried with at least as much ceremony as the British monarch. The Church is a sign and its “trappings” are relevant.
The papal funeral chat was fun and entertaining - and I mean that! - but once again, Ed. gets blindsided and shafted out of an important discussion. It's remarkable how predictable it is.
Also, Ed., you gave me a bit of a jump scare at the end there! I wasn't that Evan, though I wish I had been. Hopefully I'll get to make it to a live show sometime if y'all end up in FL at some point.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Like I said, still loved the show. I suppose it's an occupational hazard of being the host - being the one to decide which topics get discussed means that your preferred ones get priority, and that's fine.
Don't tempt me though - I /will/ start doing a running tally of topic talk times, lol
This episode was a great encapsulation of what I like about this podcast: interesting topics related to the life of the Church discussed by intelligent people who clearly have a great working relationship/friendship together. It’s great to hear your camaraderie.
For as much time he has spent in the northern wilds of MN, it is glaring omission that he hasn't hunted up here. Perhaps he needs a good hunting cabin full of manly vigor.
Yes to the shotgun, no the buckshot (unless you want hamburger), and always to dragging the deer across property lines to declare it formally deceased.
Here’s another thought, and perhaps another aspect of humility, about the Pope’s funeral.
A monarch, and a Pope, has what has been called a public body and a private body. You could think of it as a public persona and a private persona. Presidents and Prime Ministers do have this but to a lesser and more transient degree. Benedict XVI demonstrated this when he released his book “Jesus of Nazareth” as a private theologian even though he was Pope at the time. Some argue that wasn’t a distinction easy to make.
Nevertheless, my point is the Pope could exercise humility by submitting himself to the time-honoured funeral customs for the Pope as Vicar of Christ, Successor of St Peter, Vatican Head of State and not claim personal control over them. However, Francis does not seem to put much store on those titles. Alas!
I was reminded during the convo about humility and the fittingness of certain papal trappings of the early episodes of Downton Abbey, wherein Matthew Crowley (humble, middle-class country lawyer) suddenly becomes the heir presumptive to Downton. He tries to reject the trappings of his new station (his valet helping him to get ready, etc), saying he is capable of dressing himself. Then he gets a talking-to about how his role as heir and eventual Earl is about more than just his own abilities or humility, but about the community. As Earl he gets to steward all that he governs, starting with providing gainful employment for his valet and the other servants who wait on him, the farmers who farm his land, and many others. I think the patrimony of the Church is much the same, and that resonates with much of what Ed and JD were discussing about the logistics and headache (for others!) created by someone like a pope or president deciding to break precedent with tradition. ANYWAY.
If you have to bring the Pope to the Papal Chapel to confirm he is dead, but the pope wakes up on the way, can they let him go or would they have to restrain him and get him to the chapel so the camerlengo can officially determine he's not dead?
You know you're a Pillar Reader (in a good way) when you're trying to explain to someone why you were laughing so hard you cried at two canon lawyers discussing the new revisions to the rites for papal funerals.
I think black walnut would be the pricey American wood.
I like the tri-coffin tradition :(
Also a big fan of Ed's "conclave selects the resting place" idea, although I don't believe it would take more than about 2 conclaves for everyone to figure out what the symbolism of each location would be. Certainly not centuries.
I agree with Ed. re the legal declaration being made in the chapel before the Blessed Sacrament. He is a sovereign and the vicar of Christ. It fits. I don’t like the tossing of the the three coffins custom. I don’t think it’s inappropriate for the pontiff to be buried with at least as much ceremony as the British monarch. The Church is a sign and its “trappings” are relevant.
Is Frank Pavone’s baptismal name “Francis”? Please remove his MAGA baseball cap and pass me the silver hammer. 🔨
Hopefully the Camerlengo has never seen “Weekend at Bernie’s” 🤦♂️
The papal funeral chat was fun and entertaining - and I mean that! - but once again, Ed. gets blindsided and shafted out of an important discussion. It's remarkable how predictable it is.
Also, Ed., you gave me a bit of a jump scare at the end there! I wasn't that Evan, though I wish I had been. Hopefully I'll get to make it to a live show sometime if y'all end up in FL at some point.
he'd like you to think that, wouldn't he?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Like I said, still loved the show. I suppose it's an occupational hazard of being the host - being the one to decide which topics get discussed means that your preferred ones get priority, and that's fine.
Don't tempt me though - I /will/ start doing a running tally of topic talk times, lol
So much YES to FL live show. Was bitterly disappointed last year when the USCCB was in Orlando but there was no dive bar :(
Unfortunately, I was out of state with family for that one, so it would've been moot for me, but yes - if they're back, I'd definitely turn up.
If by some quirk y'all end up in Gainesville, I can definitely recommend some good dive bars.
This episode was a great encapsulation of what I like about this podcast: interesting topics related to the life of the Church discussed by intelligent people who clearly have a great working relationship/friendship together. It’s great to hear your camaraderie.
And I want Ed’s recipe for soup!
Yes to both!
Describing a four-pointer as threatening? Thinking a shotgun isn’t appropriate for deer??
Has JD ever actually hunted?!?!?!
not whitetail, no.
Elk, which you presumably wouldn't go after with buck shot. I stand corrected though.
For as much time he has spent in the northern wilds of MN, it is glaring omission that he hasn't hunted up here. Perhaps he needs a good hunting cabin full of manly vigor.
Yes to the shotgun, no the buckshot (unless you want hamburger), and always to dragging the deer across property lines to declare it formally deceased.
Here’s another thought, and perhaps another aspect of humility, about the Pope’s funeral.
A monarch, and a Pope, has what has been called a public body and a private body. You could think of it as a public persona and a private persona. Presidents and Prime Ministers do have this but to a lesser and more transient degree. Benedict XVI demonstrated this when he released his book “Jesus of Nazareth” as a private theologian even though he was Pope at the time. Some argue that wasn’t a distinction easy to make.
Nevertheless, my point is the Pope could exercise humility by submitting himself to the time-honoured funeral customs for the Pope as Vicar of Christ, Successor of St Peter, Vatican Head of State and not claim personal control over them. However, Francis does not seem to put much store on those titles. Alas!
I was reminded during the convo about humility and the fittingness of certain papal trappings of the early episodes of Downton Abbey, wherein Matthew Crowley (humble, middle-class country lawyer) suddenly becomes the heir presumptive to Downton. He tries to reject the trappings of his new station (his valet helping him to get ready, etc), saying he is capable of dressing himself. Then he gets a talking-to about how his role as heir and eventual Earl is about more than just his own abilities or humility, but about the community. As Earl he gets to steward all that he governs, starting with providing gainful employment for his valet and the other servants who wait on him, the farmers who farm his land, and many others. I think the patrimony of the Church is much the same, and that resonates with much of what Ed and JD were discussing about the logistics and headache (for others!) created by someone like a pope or president deciding to break precedent with tradition. ANYWAY.
If you have to bring the Pope to the Papal Chapel to confirm he is dead, but the pope wakes up on the way, can they let him go or would they have to restrain him and get him to the chapel so the camerlengo can officially determine he's not dead?
You know you're a Pillar Reader (in a good way) when you're trying to explain to someone why you were laughing so hard you cried at two canon lawyers discussing the new revisions to the rites for papal funerals.