I'm sorry, a seminar about the *in*compatibility of Freemasonry and Catholicism? Like you're putting a bunch of Catholics and masons in a room and they're going to talk about why we shouldn't get along? This sounds like a curmudgeon's dream: get Ed Condon out there.
I feel there's at least a 20% chance that the archbishop will return from the conference and say "Thanks to the fraternal dialogue at the conference exploring Catholic-Masonic incompatibility, we've come to the understanding that there is, in fact, no incompatibility between us! I'm glad the Church can enlargen its tent."
It's an interesting (read, bizarre) twist on what has been a slow-burning subject here. And, of course, it hadn't happened yet, so the end hadn't been written.
«Masonic lodges began as trade guilds of stoneworkers in Medieval England and Scotland.»
Really? Because,
«Despite historical fictions pretending to links to ancient Egypt and the construction of Solomon’s Temple, the modern iteration of Freemasonry, as a club for would-be alchemists, pseudo-philosophers, political dissidents, religious non-conformists, began in a London pub in 1717.»
And so far as I'm aware none of these early-modern enlightened charlatans was a stonecutter or bricklayer or the like. Maybe they borrowed the idea of the guilds, which then were (as I understand it, but all this modern history makes me dizzy) rapidly dying off, if not altogether gone. Much like the post-modern neo-pagans, it seems mostly to have been made up is a state of substantially-incomplete sobriety.
But Father, isn't that the primary reason we were ordained? Don't we dialogue so we can waste time agreeing to disagree or better to let our "dialogue partners" tell us how it really is?
Preaching, Sacraments and pastoral care...nah.
Honestly, if I hear the word "dialogue" I move on to the next pastoral or Sacramental need.
After being involved in the early stages of the National level of the SoS, I felt relieved that I would not be involved in it further.
Why does it seem that those ordinaries who are the strongest advocates of the SoS are those who are least interested in actual dialog, say with their clergy or their laity, apart from a favored few? Am I imagining things?
This is like if Elijah had entered into, "dialog" with the prophets of Baal after they'd burned their children alive in front of an idol...except none of these prelates could carry Elijah's camel-hair undergarments. Unless their mission is to preach Christ to these lost souls, there's zero reason to associate with them.
I have a hard time taking the Masons as a serious threat to anything other than the dignity of the poor souls who climb into clown cars and creep everyone out at parades.
I’d appreciate a reference to some explainers on Masonry that detail the threats to the Church because I just don’t see it. As far as bank and finance scams run against the Vatican, we have Pillar reader Angelo Becciu to fill that need without any assistance from the Masons.
Besides it being the topic most spoken about in papal encyclicals, ask an exorcist. Father Chad Ripperger is a good one. He has written a book entitled: Deliverance Prayers: For Use by the Laity and a section of that book deals with exorcising the influence of Freemasonry not just with immediate ex-members but from generational curses upon ex-and full members in the past and future generations on their families. In some of his exorcisms he has interrogated demons about Freemasonry. And they all agree that Freemasonry is bad news. According to Father Ripperger, the focus of Freemasonry (as members climb the hierarchy) is Luciferian.
Masons (for example), as a matter of historical record, were heavily involved in the oppression of the Church that led to what is commonly known as the Cristero War in Mexico just about a century ago. While most of that was native Mexican Masons, and at least some American Masons supported their Mexican counterparts.
From the Wikipeople: "On May 28, 1926, Calles was awarded a medal of merit from the head of Mexico's Scottish rite for his actions against the Catholics."
Also, it said so in the article. Masonic lodges in Italy were hosts to cells of terrorist activity in the 20Th century which there was a fair bit of communist terrorism and bombings in the 1970s. I do also believe that Masonic lodges were also a chief organising ecosystem for the Orange Brigade in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Spain and Mexico’s anti-clerical political parties were also masons.
My great-grandfather was one, and quite high ranking in his lodge. He left it all behind to convert to Catholicism to marry my great-grandmother. He suffered some major social ostracism for his sins. There was a lot of political skullduggery done through the Masonic lodges in 19th and 20th century Australia to keep Irish Catholics out of any positions of power or influence. The Australian Labour Party was formed by a bunch of Irish Catholic workers to fight for workers rights against the mostly Protestant masons who had the political power and clout.
So yes, they can do a lot of damage, especially as a club for the moneyed elite as a way of socialising out of public scrutiny.
Freemasonry is incompatible with the Catholic faith. But the ban on Freemasonry seems incompatible with the Abu Dhabi Statement. Perhaps the Abu Dhabi Statement is ....
It was one of the most controversial things CWR ever published.
The Grand Orient branch of Freemasonry in France and Latin countries has a long and bitter history of conflict with the Church. The Blue Lodge branch, subject to the Mother Lodge in London is the kind common in Anglo-Saxon countries is less hostile. (The Shriners, Scottish Rite, and Royal Arch organizations are "paramasonic" entities, not connected to the Mother Lodge.)
The whole thing started in Scotland in the 1590s when gentry interested in the mystical possibilities of architecture took over moribund stonemason guilds. (See The Origins of Freemasonry by David Stevenson.) Two good books are: Christianity and American Freemasonry by William Whalen and Inside the Brotherhood by Martin Short. The latter covers the influence of Masonry all across English society. But that has greatly waned both in the UK and the USA because few people are interested in joining these days.
Thank you for a very informative article, Sandra. Frustrating to read all the “I’m a good Catholic and a Mason” comments below it, as though none of the history you related mattered nor the anti-Christian understanding of the Masonic god. It also puts on display their utter indifference to long-standing Church teaching, as those men prefer to make it up as they go along.
I’m looking forward to a subsequent Pillar discussion about this latest Vatican-Mason chat-fest, because it seems that many contemporary clerics are alarmingly similar to those men, who just can’t see what all the fuss it about.
"Bishop Schneider went on to recall St Maximilian Kolbe’s recollections of the Freemasons’ aggressive celebrations of their 200th anniversary in Rome during 1917, in the middle of the First World War. His Lordship related St Maximilian Kolbe’s description of Freemasonry openly declaring war on the Catholic Church. The Freemason littered Rome with posters showing the Archangel Michael defeated on the ground trampled beneath a triumphant Lucifer. In their protests against the Catholic Church, the Freemasons also displayed the black flag of the heretic Giordano Bruno, a Dominican friar who promoted materialistic pantheism, a central belief of Freemasonry. (Bruno also denied fundamental doctrines of the Faith)."
Thank you. I think it could reflect the current pope's attitude towards "outreach" but at most, this will be just an exercise in courtesy-signalling. But given the bloody persecutions instigated by Grand Orient Masonry in the past, "jaw-jaw-jaw is better than war-war-war."
“roles” → “rolls”
I'm sorry, a seminar about the *in*compatibility of Freemasonry and Catholicism? Like you're putting a bunch of Catholics and masons in a room and they're going to talk about why we shouldn't get along? This sounds like a curmudgeon's dream: get Ed Condon out there.
Having read this, do I need an exorcist?
I feel there's at least a 20% chance that the archbishop will return from the conference and say "Thanks to the fraternal dialogue at the conference exploring Catholic-Masonic incompatibility, we've come to the understanding that there is, in fact, no incompatibility between us! I'm glad the Church can enlargen its tent."
There are some people in the Vatican I would expect this from, but not Archbishop Delpini
Reminds me a bit of Animal Farm when the pigs meet with the farmers behind closed doors and then the rules mysteriously change.
Okay, now I need a Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World episode about the suspicious death of Roberto Calvi.
Is this really newsworthy? It was an interesting read, but it sort of just peters out at the end.
It's an interesting (read, bizarre) twist on what has been a slow-burning subject here. And, of course, it hadn't happened yet, so the end hadn't been written.
«Masonic lodges began as trade guilds of stoneworkers in Medieval England and Scotland.»
Really? Because,
«Despite historical fictions pretending to links to ancient Egypt and the construction of Solomon’s Temple, the modern iteration of Freemasonry, as a club for would-be alchemists, pseudo-philosophers, political dissidents, religious non-conformists, began in a London pub in 1717.»
And so far as I'm aware none of these early-modern enlightened charlatans was a stonecutter or bricklayer or the like. Maybe they borrowed the idea of the guilds, which then were (as I understand it, but all this modern history makes me dizzy) rapidly dying off, if not altogether gone. Much like the post-modern neo-pagans, it seems mostly to have been made up is a state of substantially-incomplete sobriety.
I'm so tired of being in "dialogue" with everyone
But Father, isn't that the primary reason we were ordained? Don't we dialogue so we can waste time agreeing to disagree or better to let our "dialogue partners" tell us how it really is?
Preaching, Sacraments and pastoral care...nah.
Honestly, if I hear the word "dialogue" I move on to the next pastoral or Sacramental need.
After being involved in the early stages of the National level of the SoS, I felt relieved that I would not be involved in it further.
Can we talk?
Why does it seem that those ordinaries who are the strongest advocates of the SoS are those who are least interested in actual dialog, say with their clergy or their laity, apart from a favored few? Am I imagining things?
Nope. I’d agree with you.
Many bishops are only willing to work with a small favored few.
But on the other hand I would never want to be a bishop.
… but not WANTING to be a bishop surely seems to be an important qualification for being one …
(Not that we deacons have any input in the terna.)
The good Archbishop must not have enough to do.
This is like if Elijah had entered into, "dialog" with the prophets of Baal after they'd burned their children alive in front of an idol...except none of these prelates could carry Elijah's camel-hair undergarments. Unless their mission is to preach Christ to these lost souls, there's zero reason to associate with them.
I have a hard time taking the Masons as a serious threat to anything other than the dignity of the poor souls who climb into clown cars and creep everyone out at parades.
I’d appreciate a reference to some explainers on Masonry that detail the threats to the Church because I just don’t see it. As far as bank and finance scams run against the Vatican, we have Pillar reader Angelo Becciu to fill that need without any assistance from the Masons.
Besides it being the topic most spoken about in papal encyclicals, ask an exorcist. Father Chad Ripperger is a good one. He has written a book entitled: Deliverance Prayers: For Use by the Laity and a section of that book deals with exorcising the influence of Freemasonry not just with immediate ex-members but from generational curses upon ex-and full members in the past and future generations on their families. In some of his exorcisms he has interrogated demons about Freemasonry. And they all agree that Freemasonry is bad news. According to Father Ripperger, the focus of Freemasonry (as members climb the hierarchy) is Luciferian.
Masons (for example), as a matter of historical record, were heavily involved in the oppression of the Church that led to what is commonly known as the Cristero War in Mexico just about a century ago. While most of that was native Mexican Masons, and at least some American Masons supported their Mexican counterparts.
From the Wikipeople: "On May 28, 1926, Calles was awarded a medal of merit from the head of Mexico's Scottish rite for his actions against the Catholics."
Also, it said so in the article. Masonic lodges in Italy were hosts to cells of terrorist activity in the 20Th century which there was a fair bit of communist terrorism and bombings in the 1970s. I do also believe that Masonic lodges were also a chief organising ecosystem for the Orange Brigade in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Spain and Mexico’s anti-clerical political parties were also masons.
My great-grandfather was one, and quite high ranking in his lodge. He left it all behind to convert to Catholicism to marry my great-grandmother. He suffered some major social ostracism for his sins. There was a lot of political skullduggery done through the Masonic lodges in 19th and 20th century Australia to keep Irish Catholics out of any positions of power or influence. The Australian Labour Party was formed by a bunch of Irish Catholic workers to fight for workers rights against the mostly Protestant masons who had the political power and clout.
So yes, they can do a lot of damage, especially as a club for the moneyed elite as a way of socialising out of public scrutiny.
Gosh, next we will have blessing of same sex marriages…..
Nah …
Freemasonry is incompatible with the Catholic faith. But the ban on Freemasonry seems incompatible with the Abu Dhabi Statement. Perhaps the Abu Dhabi Statement is ....
Here's an article that i wrote for Catholic World Report seven years ago: https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2017/02/07/freemasons-and-their-craft-what-catholics-should-know/
It was one of the most controversial things CWR ever published.
The Grand Orient branch of Freemasonry in France and Latin countries has a long and bitter history of conflict with the Church. The Blue Lodge branch, subject to the Mother Lodge in London is the kind common in Anglo-Saxon countries is less hostile. (The Shriners, Scottish Rite, and Royal Arch organizations are "paramasonic" entities, not connected to the Mother Lodge.)
The whole thing started in Scotland in the 1590s when gentry interested in the mystical possibilities of architecture took over moribund stonemason guilds. (See The Origins of Freemasonry by David Stevenson.) Two good books are: Christianity and American Freemasonry by William Whalen and Inside the Brotherhood by Martin Short. The latter covers the influence of Masonry all across English society. But that has greatly waned both in the UK and the USA because few people are interested in joining these days.
Thank you. Your article is the best information I've read on Freemasonry. What is your take on why the Church is trying to "dialogue" with this group?
Thank you for a very informative article, Sandra. Frustrating to read all the “I’m a good Catholic and a Mason” comments below it, as though none of the history you related mattered nor the anti-Christian understanding of the Masonic god. It also puts on display their utter indifference to long-standing Church teaching, as those men prefer to make it up as they go along.
I’m looking forward to a subsequent Pillar discussion about this latest Vatican-Mason chat-fest, because it seems that many contemporary clerics are alarmingly similar to those men, who just can’t see what all the fuss it about.
"Bishop Schneider went on to recall St Maximilian Kolbe’s recollections of the Freemasons’ aggressive celebrations of their 200th anniversary in Rome during 1917, in the middle of the First World War. His Lordship related St Maximilian Kolbe’s description of Freemasonry openly declaring war on the Catholic Church. The Freemason littered Rome with posters showing the Archangel Michael defeated on the ground trampled beneath a triumphant Lucifer. In their protests against the Catholic Church, the Freemasons also displayed the black flag of the heretic Giordano Bruno, a Dominican friar who promoted materialistic pantheism, a central belief of Freemasonry. (Bruno also denied fundamental doctrines of the Faith)."
https://onepeterfive.com/bishop-schneider-freemasonry-instrument-satan-seeking-destroy-church/
Thank you. I think it could reflect the current pope's attitude towards "outreach" but at most, this will be just an exercise in courtesy-signalling. But given the bloody persecutions instigated by Grand Orient Masonry in the past, "jaw-jaw-jaw is better than war-war-war."