Unfortunately a lot of these quotes are unlikely to help their cause. Some come across less like "I find the Latin Mass helps me spiritually," (the people Summorum pontificum was written for), and more like "if I didn't have the Latin Mass I would be cut off from the Eucharist [because I don't believe in the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass]," (the people Traditionis custodes was written for)
They should inundate the chancery with letters and cards of appreciation. Tell the bishop how much the TLM means to them and why, but also express their fidelity to him, the Pope, and the Church.
There seems to be a narrative that those who prefer the TLM reject other aspects of the Faith or the current leaders of the Church. These folks need to actively combat that point of view if they seek to change minds.
Not from the FSSP, which split from SSPX over obedience to Pope St. John Paul II. That's why they were exempt from Traditiones Custodes, because they started as a reaction against schism.
That’s just it though. I’m pretty sure the FSSP and the ICKSP make up a vast majority of TLMers with the SSPX and diocesan groups being a much smaller fraction (and I don’t think you can claim every group is “radtrad”). Yet, for some reason, all Trads are viewed as schismatics, despite most Trads being involved with these groups that are, explicitly, in communion. Even the SSPX is just irregular these days and will probably normalize in my lifetime.
The SSPX can't normalize unless they accept all the documents of Vatican II, which they refuse to do. And I think it's a given that those who attend Mass with FSSP or ICKSP are not considered schismatic or heretical. They are in full union with the Church.
Probably because SSPX was the first group to retain the Latin Mass, or perhaps because in local diocesan parishes with Latin Masses the people who attend them speak against Vatican II and the NO. At least that's an experience I have had here with a few of my brother's Latin Mass parishioners. Most of them are not like that, of course. In South Bend the Latin Mass is FSSP so of course it's fine and I had a friend switch from our parish to theirs. Definitely not heretical or schismatic.
I remember when Bishop Morlino became Bishop of Madison, Wisconsin in 2003 and did not want to allow priests to celebrate the TLM in his diocese. I remember protests on Catholic radio at the time about that. Well, Bishop Morlino changed his mind and soon after became well known in the U.S. for his strong support of the TLM. But Bishop Morlino was overall much more conservative than Bishop Martin seems to be.
I am happy that these folks feel better about their opportunities for worship. I wish the same outrage about the Vatican’s alleged decision about Fr.Hoare were evident. From my reading the only thing resolved was to make sure both Biahops covered themselves in doing what they were supposed to do. The “ semblance of truth” issued by the hand picked review board is another way of covering the bishops. There can be a semblance of truth where kids are concerned in many situations.oh I will be characterized as one who encourages abuse but that is light years from the truth. I have spent 58 years of my life working with kids.Fr.Hoare is NO abuser and as far as boundary issues goes,a huge stretch of the imagination. What was reported occurred in PUBLIC. Maybe boundary issues by this church but mindless,innocent gestures in reality. This man’s life and reputation have been ruined and where is the outcry?
I went to Mass at St. Anne's in mid-May when I was staying in Charlotte for a few days. St. Anne's was selected because it was closest to the hotel I was staying in. No other reason, I was unaware of all this business with the Bishop. I was blown away at it's 8:30 AM Mass. Packed with young families, 12 alter servers, beautiful music, traditional in how we received the Host. I thought, well, this is a successful church. Fine a successful parish and then do what you can to suppress success and depress the young people finding Christ in the Mass. The good Catholics of Charlotte are in my prayers.
These would be the "people on the ground" you talked with and whose opinion fed the narrative of this report. This entire matter speaks to the central motivation of Pope Francis to avoid the division of additional multiple rites. The fact that this minority of young people have been encouraged to pursue a loyalty to the Tridentine Rite is unfortunate and distressing.
Great article. Lets pray that this poor Diocese can stay out of the news for awhile.
Such humble responses. I love seeing the charity they've chosen to extend to the bishop.
“It is a lot to resend the previous statement… “
Perhaps “rescind” was what was meant instead of “resend.”
Unfortunately a lot of these quotes are unlikely to help their cause. Some come across less like "I find the Latin Mass helps me spiritually," (the people Summorum pontificum was written for), and more like "if I didn't have the Latin Mass I would be cut off from the Eucharist [because I don't believe in the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass]," (the people Traditionis custodes was written for)
Not a very charitable reading of their comments; I did not get that impression at all.
They should inundate the chancery with letters and cards of appreciation. Tell the bishop how much the TLM means to them and why, but also express their fidelity to him, the Pope, and the Church.
There seems to be a narrative that those who prefer the TLM reject other aspects of the Faith or the current leaders of the Church. These folks need to actively combat that point of view if they seek to change minds.
I always find that outlook so bizarre. The FSSP prays for the Holy Father, whomever it may be, constantly. Where did this idea come from?
Not from the FSSP, which split from SSPX over obedience to Pope St. John Paul II. That's why they were exempt from Traditiones Custodes, because they started as a reaction against schism.
That’s just it though. I’m pretty sure the FSSP and the ICKSP make up a vast majority of TLMers with the SSPX and diocesan groups being a much smaller fraction (and I don’t think you can claim every group is “radtrad”). Yet, for some reason, all Trads are viewed as schismatics, despite most Trads being involved with these groups that are, explicitly, in communion. Even the SSPX is just irregular these days and will probably normalize in my lifetime.
The SSPX can't normalize unless they accept all the documents of Vatican II, which they refuse to do. And I think it's a given that those who attend Mass with FSSP or ICKSP are not considered schismatic or heretical. They are in full union with the Church.
Give it time.
And you think it’s a given, but it seems to be a minority opinion.
If the majority of Trads are not schismatic and heretical, why are they so often accused of being so, especially by the Church hierarchy?
That’s the question I am pondering. I see accusations that all Trads are crypto-sedes practically every day online. Where is that coming from?
Probably because SSPX was the first group to retain the Latin Mass, or perhaps because in local diocesan parishes with Latin Masses the people who attend them speak against Vatican II and the NO. At least that's an experience I have had here with a few of my brother's Latin Mass parishioners. Most of them are not like that, of course. In South Bend the Latin Mass is FSSP so of course it's fine and I had a friend switch from our parish to theirs. Definitely not heretical or schismatic.
I remember when Bishop Morlino became Bishop of Madison, Wisconsin in 2003 and did not want to allow priests to celebrate the TLM in his diocese. I remember protests on Catholic radio at the time about that. Well, Bishop Morlino changed his mind and soon after became well known in the U.S. for his strong support of the TLM. But Bishop Morlino was overall much more conservative than Bishop Martin seems to be.
I am happy that these folks feel better about their opportunities for worship. I wish the same outrage about the Vatican’s alleged decision about Fr.Hoare were evident. From my reading the only thing resolved was to make sure both Biahops covered themselves in doing what they were supposed to do. The “ semblance of truth” issued by the hand picked review board is another way of covering the bishops. There can be a semblance of truth where kids are concerned in many situations.oh I will be characterized as one who encourages abuse but that is light years from the truth. I have spent 58 years of my life working with kids.Fr.Hoare is NO abuser and as far as boundary issues goes,a huge stretch of the imagination. What was reported occurred in PUBLIC. Maybe boundary issues by this church but mindless,innocent gestures in reality. This man’s life and reputation have been ruined and where is the outcry?
Comment below from Jane Francisco Eugene’s wife
I went to Mass at St. Anne's in mid-May when I was staying in Charlotte for a few days. St. Anne's was selected because it was closest to the hotel I was staying in. No other reason, I was unaware of all this business with the Bishop. I was blown away at it's 8:30 AM Mass. Packed with young families, 12 alter servers, beautiful music, traditional in how we received the Host. I thought, well, this is a successful church. Fine a successful parish and then do what you can to suppress success and depress the young people finding Christ in the Mass. The good Catholics of Charlotte are in my prayers.
These would be the "people on the ground" you talked with and whose opinion fed the narrative of this report. This entire matter speaks to the central motivation of Pope Francis to avoid the division of additional multiple rites. The fact that this minority of young people have been encouraged to pursue a loyalty to the Tridentine Rite is unfortunate and distressing.