The wsj reference was an error and was corrected in the article. By 'cosy' I meant a bishop using a media outlet that is primarily business/wealth/economic/political would have seemed too partisan in a non gospel way.
Thoughtful analysis JD. Unfortunate that the Vatican has allowed itself to be manipulated by Pelosi and Biden. Pro choice progressives will respond by claiming conservative traditionalists in the American Church are the problem. Pelosi’s PR folks have already implied she and the Pope were in total union on social issues in America.
"Allowed itself to be manipulated" is an understatement. The men at the Vatican are not naive or new to this, they knew exactly how the visit and photo-op would be used. I don't want to attribute motive, but we can certainly rule out their being shocked--shocked!--at what happened.
Thanks for this article. I am even more confused after I saw another news report that Pelosi was supposed to lector at a Mass Saturday night in Rome, but left the Mass after a security concern. Why would she be allowed to lector at a Mass in Rome?
We pray for the pope, Mrs Pelosi, and all people. I don't think the pope cares about PR and what meeting with a Catholic means to politics. For no matter what anyone says, I think the canon lawyers would agree she is a Catholic. And maybe meeting with the pope will help her see the light on the abortion issue.
oh the Pope likes and cares about PR why do you think he lamb bases so called traditionalists as out of touch pr just loves that and that gets the Pope applause
I know you're trying to be charitable and unjudgmental, particularly in regard to the pope, but it is naïve in the extreme to imagine that Poor Francis does not care about PR. I don't know of any other ecclesiastical leader who cares more! It's evident for a long time now that anyone who takes a position against him on social justice issues, or traditional teaching is called out quite robustly. His latest target was Raymond Arroyo who had the temerity to question his recent Motu Proprio on the Latin Mass. I may be wrong but I think the word 'evil' was bandied about.
Actually, I shouldn't really be answering this post. I'm trying to turn two blind eyes to what's going on in Rome; it's heartbreaking and deeply worrying. Yes, God is in charge and is allowing His Church to be sorely tested. All I can do in the interim is concentrate on my own salvation.
That meeting would have gotten really interesting if Pope Francis had taken the opportunity to tell her about the eucharistic miracle in Buenos Aires in 1996, which happened during then Bishop Bergoglio's tenure, and which he ended up examining, if not literally first hand, at least second hand. It might had been a great reminder for Mrs Pelosi how real the presence is and how 1 Cor. 11:29 is nothing to scoff at.
balanced article that is helpful for me. We don't need to try to read tea leaves to understand this is a strategy employed by both sides to keep the status quo of ignoring the death of the innocents. Following science, we know life begins at conception. Following science, we know abortion kills a human life. Following our spiritual sense, we know the evil one despises the fact that Jesus was from the womb of "woman.' Following our spiritual sense, we know because he cannot attack God directly, he attacks that whom God loves so dearly, His "little ones." May we pray to God for our own conversion as well as others.
The fact of the matter is that this boils down to bishops saying one thing about church teaching but never actually doing anything to show that is indeed true and real. And it is beyond demoralizing and depressing for the faithful who actually do believe.
Was Bishop McElroy's recent visit to Rome, where he gave that interview to America magazine, concurrent with Pelosi's visit with the Pope? It seems that politics has trumped doctrine, McElroy's interview indicates the direction that he, and those other leaders of whom he is of like mind, want the Church to go, utilizing political and financial power to push the Church in that direction.
I think it's just as likely that Francis is manipulating Biden and Pelosi as it is that they're manipulating him. It's hard to identify a single "social justice" (i.e., leftist) policy of theirs he disagrees with. And while he differs with them on abortion, he has for eight years now shown he's unwilling to make the slaughter of innocents in the womb his preeminent concern when doing so would mean sacrificing secular support for any aspect of his political agenda.
Thanks for another level analysis. I have my own feelings and thoughts about this -- but when I read news analysis, what I want are facts and dispassionate consideration. The Pillar is invaluable.
As a non American I find it so strange that Bishops would use the Wall Street Journal to write about sacramental discipline. It seems too 'cosy'.
Do you mean the Washington Post? The article refers to Archbishop Cordileone's article in the Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/05/our-duty-challenge-catholic-politicians-who-support-abortion-rights/), and I didn't turn up any WSJ articles by a Catholic bishop in a quick search.
Yes, she does. The analysis originally, and erroneously referred to the wsj. we made a correction but it must not have stuck. will add.
I don't understand what you mean by "cosy" in this context.
The wsj reference was an error and was corrected in the article. By 'cosy' I meant a bishop using a media outlet that is primarily business/wealth/economic/political would have seemed too partisan in a non gospel way.
Thoughtful analysis JD. Unfortunate that the Vatican has allowed itself to be manipulated by Pelosi and Biden. Pro choice progressives will respond by claiming conservative traditionalists in the American Church are the problem. Pelosi’s PR folks have already implied she and the Pope were in total union on social issues in America.
"Allowed itself to be manipulated" is an understatement. The men at the Vatican are not naive or new to this, they knew exactly how the visit and photo-op would be used. I don't want to attribute motive, but we can certainly rule out their being shocked--shocked!--at what happened.
Thanks for this article. I am even more confused after I saw another news report that Pelosi was supposed to lector at a Mass Saturday night in Rome, but left the Mass after a security concern. Why would she be allowed to lector at a Mass in Rome?
We pray for the pope, Mrs Pelosi, and all people. I don't think the pope cares about PR and what meeting with a Catholic means to politics. For no matter what anyone says, I think the canon lawyers would agree she is a Catholic. And maybe meeting with the pope will help her see the light on the abortion issue.
You "don't think the pope cares about PR"? Hat tip for you, sir. That joke gave me a nice good chuckle.
oh the Pope likes and cares about PR why do you think he lamb bases so called traditionalists as out of touch pr just loves that and that gets the Pope applause
I know you're trying to be charitable and unjudgmental, particularly in regard to the pope, but it is naïve in the extreme to imagine that Poor Francis does not care about PR. I don't know of any other ecclesiastical leader who cares more! It's evident for a long time now that anyone who takes a position against him on social justice issues, or traditional teaching is called out quite robustly. His latest target was Raymond Arroyo who had the temerity to question his recent Motu Proprio on the Latin Mass. I may be wrong but I think the word 'evil' was bandied about.
Actually, I shouldn't really be answering this post. I'm trying to turn two blind eyes to what's going on in Rome; it's heartbreaking and deeply worrying. Yes, God is in charge and is allowing His Church to be sorely tested. All I can do in the interim is concentrate on my own salvation.
i agree whole heartedly.. he calls people the devil… when someone doesn’t agree with him… a Pope calling others the devil… go figure…
That meeting would have gotten really interesting if Pope Francis had taken the opportunity to tell her about the eucharistic miracle in Buenos Aires in 1996, which happened during then Bishop Bergoglio's tenure, and which he ended up examining, if not literally first hand, at least second hand. It might had been a great reminder for Mrs Pelosi how real the presence is and how 1 Cor. 11:29 is nothing to scoff at.
balanced article that is helpful for me. We don't need to try to read tea leaves to understand this is a strategy employed by both sides to keep the status quo of ignoring the death of the innocents. Following science, we know life begins at conception. Following science, we know abortion kills a human life. Following our spiritual sense, we know the evil one despises the fact that Jesus was from the womb of "woman.' Following our spiritual sense, we know because he cannot attack God directly, he attacks that whom God loves so dearly, His "little ones." May we pray to God for our own conversion as well as others.
The fact of the matter is that this boils down to bishops saying one thing about church teaching but never actually doing anything to show that is indeed true and real. And it is beyond demoralizing and depressing for the faithful who actually do believe.
Was Bishop McElroy's recent visit to Rome, where he gave that interview to America magazine, concurrent with Pelosi's visit with the Pope? It seems that politics has trumped doctrine, McElroy's interview indicates the direction that he, and those other leaders of whom he is of like mind, want the Church to go, utilizing political and financial power to push the Church in that direction.
would’ve interesting to know…
I think it's just as likely that Francis is manipulating Biden and Pelosi as it is that they're manipulating him. It's hard to identify a single "social justice" (i.e., leftist) policy of theirs he disagrees with. And while he differs with them on abortion, he has for eight years now shown he's unwilling to make the slaughter of innocents in the womb his preeminent concern when doing so would mean sacrificing secular support for any aspect of his political agenda.
ya demoralizing i do not pray pay or obey the hierarchy i have NO respect for them
Thanks for another level analysis. I have my own feelings and thoughts about this -- but when I read news analysis, what I want are facts and dispassionate consideration. The Pillar is invaluable.