Another consistory in June, eh? I'd wager a large sum of money we'll be getting Pope Leo's first batch of cardinals. The number will be 118 then, and +Czerny turns 80 in July.
Honestly a very nice surprise to come out of this consistory. We can often complain about constant meetings and such but if it is primarily a time for the cardinals to come together and pray and build a proper fraternal collegiality between themselves then this seems good to me.
My main objection to cardinals meeting is them producing long documents that say little of use. I'm all for them meeting to talk and pray and get to know each other without writing anything - those are all useful things.
And since those are the goals, I think the small group format is a good thing, provided it is not scripted or "facilitated". They're grown-ups, given a topic, they should be able to manage themselves. And the more varied discussions from smaller groups should give the cardinals a better sense of each other than the more lecture-oriented approach could.
It's ITA Airways now. Alitalia ceased operations and existence in 2021. The Italian Government owns most of ITA, but Lufthansa Group also owns a large stake. So you can buy stock in Lufthansa.
That would be helpful, but not necessarily through lay activists who often represent a tiny minority of the laity, usually less than 1%. A better way would be to have lay people on one specific week after every Sunday Mass in every parish fill out questionnaires (with space for their own personal comments or suggestions) which would then be assembled into a summary for the local bishop which he would be asked by the Vatican to submit along with his own suggestions. Having a elitist group of lay activists showing up at the Vatican and having sessions with Cardinals is not the way to go, especially if in some cases sensitive information may need to be discussed which will need to be kept secret.
OK hear me out - a jury duty system. You show up at Mass, your number gets drawn, and you go to Rome (or, if your real obligations prevent you from doing that, you at least have to spend an hour talking with your bishop ahead of time about anything you think he should know).
Excellent idea, or even simply picking alternates through the same system if the first person does not want to participate. I may prefer to talk to the people in Rome than to some bishops (I personally don't trust my own bishop that he would relay my views).
I would disagree. The elitist group of bishops we call the College of Cardinals benefits from dialogue among themselves. Denying us lay faithful the opportunity to dialogue among ourselves would be unfortunate by having us individually complete a survey. There are also issues with being restricted to a pre-printed form (which often obstruct rather than facilitate the most helpful commentary) and the matter of someone else "summarizing" commentary.
That being said, I can accept the point that there are some people who do not do well in group settings, be they inarticulate, misanthropic or just shy. Any lay forum to discuss matters and select representatives should be structured to affirmatively include such people and make them feel welcome.
I think Pope Leo XIV showed his willingness to listen to the laity today by meeting with German laity opposed to the Synodal Way. My worry is that often the laity invited for these synodal meetings, whether in the dioceses or the Vatican are hand picked by the bishops and do not necessarily represent the regular Catholic laity. This is both true in regards to the liberal German bishops in the Synodal Way or, for example, the recent Synod of the Archdiocese of Wroclaw in Poland where it seems laity was asked to pray for the synod, but the lay and clergy participants were by invitation only and I did not see any invitations for the general Catholic public.
Everybody around the Pillar comment section knows your primary concern is the TLM. You’ve even said that those are the main articles you engage with. So if you say “liturgy wars” everyone here knows you’re probably talking about the TLM whether or not you mention it by name.
Synodality without agendas, documents, or benchmarks. Anything that gets people talking face to face and not behind keyboards is a step in the right direction.
This is really wonderful news. The prioritization of evangelization in the midst of a restored collegiality among the Cardinals has the feel of a reset.
Awesome, love this. These are some of the most powerful men in the Church (for better or worse) so the more they can get together to worship, pray, and get to know each other - I think that's God's will. With the longer format proposed in the future (I thought 2 days was too short, but since it was kinda last minute I figured there would be a lot of scheduling conflicts) I bet there will be plenty of time for dinner and a glass of wine together as well!
Also, to feel like a Cardinal myself I'm going to pick up a copy of Evangelii Gaudium to read this Lent.
Another consistory in June, eh? I'd wager a large sum of money we'll be getting Pope Leo's first batch of cardinals. The number will be 118 then, and +Czerny turns 80 in July.
118 being the number of cardinal electors. But nobody’s measuring Leo XIV for a casket yet. 😀
Honestly a very nice surprise to come out of this consistory. We can often complain about constant meetings and such but if it is primarily a time for the cardinals to come together and pray and build a proper fraternal collegiality between themselves then this seems good to me.
My main objection to cardinals meeting is them producing long documents that say little of use. I'm all for them meeting to talk and pray and get to know each other without writing anything - those are all useful things.
And since those are the goals, I think the small group format is a good thing, provided it is not scripted or "facilitated". They're grown-ups, given a topic, they should be able to manage themselves. And the more varied discussions from smaller groups should give the cardinals a better sense of each other than the more lecture-oriented approach could.
They can give the Pope good ideas that he can then write about as he sees fit.
Indeed, and give each other good ideas to speak and write about as well!
Much good comes from moving between an influx of other peoples' thoughts, and independent thought, and back again, for all concerned.
I’m buying stock in Air Italia
It's ITA Airways now. Alitalia ceased operations and existence in 2021. The Italian Government owns most of ITA, but Lufthansa Group also owns a large stake. So you can buy stock in Lufthansa.
-Sincerely, An Airplane Nerd :)
Thank you. It’s way above my semi-retired layperson pay grade anyway
It all comes back to synodality.
Another great piece, Edgar!
True synodality which is for Cardinals and bishops to advise the Pope.
And for the laity and the lower clergy to advise as well.
That would be helpful, but not necessarily through lay activists who often represent a tiny minority of the laity, usually less than 1%. A better way would be to have lay people on one specific week after every Sunday Mass in every parish fill out questionnaires (with space for their own personal comments or suggestions) which would then be assembled into a summary for the local bishop which he would be asked by the Vatican to submit along with his own suggestions. Having a elitist group of lay activists showing up at the Vatican and having sessions with Cardinals is not the way to go, especially if in some cases sensitive information may need to be discussed which will need to be kept secret.
OK hear me out - a jury duty system. You show up at Mass, your number gets drawn, and you go to Rome (or, if your real obligations prevent you from doing that, you at least have to spend an hour talking with your bishop ahead of time about anything you think he should know).
Excellent idea, or even simply picking alternates through the same system if the first person does not want to participate. I may prefer to talk to the people in Rome than to some bishops (I personally don't trust my own bishop that he would relay my views).
I would disagree. The elitist group of bishops we call the College of Cardinals benefits from dialogue among themselves. Denying us lay faithful the opportunity to dialogue among ourselves would be unfortunate by having us individually complete a survey. There are also issues with being restricted to a pre-printed form (which often obstruct rather than facilitate the most helpful commentary) and the matter of someone else "summarizing" commentary.
That being said, I can accept the point that there are some people who do not do well in group settings, be they inarticulate, misanthropic or just shy. Any lay forum to discuss matters and select representatives should be structured to affirmatively include such people and make them feel welcome.
I think Pope Leo XIV showed his willingness to listen to the laity today by meeting with German laity opposed to the Synodal Way. My worry is that often the laity invited for these synodal meetings, whether in the dioceses or the Vatican are hand picked by the bishops and do not necessarily represent the regular Catholic laity. This is both true in regards to the liberal German bishops in the Synodal Way or, for example, the recent Synod of the Archdiocese of Wroclaw in Poland where it seems laity was asked to pray for the synod, but the lay and clergy participants were by invitation only and I did not see any invitations for the general Catholic public.
I am with you on that. There should be some means of the laity choosing their own representatives.
This is wonderful news!!
The whole point of this was ending the liturgy wars. What a blown opportunity.
Did Pope Leo say that was the point? Consistories existed long before the liturgy wars.
Well as long as they got to Synodality
Seriously, dude - having known you in another life - it’s not always about the TLM.
You’re the first one to mention the TLM
Everybody around the Pillar comment section knows your primary concern is the TLM. You’ve even said that those are the main articles you engage with. So if you say “liturgy wars” everyone here knows you’re probably talking about the TLM whether or not you mention it by name.
Synodality without agendas, documents, or benchmarks. Anything that gets people talking face to face and not behind keyboards is a step in the right direction.
I think this a great idea. But how much will this cost and who pays. The Vatican isn’t exactly swimming in extra cash right now.
The question rather is: Is this the will of God? If the answer is yes, then God will provide.
“Decided? No, we have just finished saying 'Good Morning'.”
This is really wonderful news. The prioritization of evangelization in the midst of a restored collegiality among the Cardinals has the feel of a reset.
Awesome, love this. These are some of the most powerful men in the Church (for better or worse) so the more they can get together to worship, pray, and get to know each other - I think that's God's will. With the longer format proposed in the future (I thought 2 days was too short, but since it was kinda last minute I figured there would be a lot of scheduling conflicts) I bet there will be plenty of time for dinner and a glass of wine together as well!
Also, to feel like a Cardinal myself I'm going to pick up a copy of Evangelii Gaudium to read this Lent.