Speed dating the new cardinals: Could one of these be 'the one?'
Could the cardinals end up picking one of their newest members to be that special someone come conclave time?
On Saturday, Pope Francis celebrated the 10th consistory of his pontificate with the creation of 21 new cardinals.
With the new consistory, there are now 140 cardinals who are eligible to elect the next pope in the event of Francis’ death.
While the cardinals are not required to pick from among their own ranks in selecting the next pope, it is a tradition, and close to a certainty, that they will do so in the next conclave.
This means that any one of the 21 men given a red hat over the weekend could find himself being chosen as the one by his brother cardinals, and eventually emerging on the loggia as the next pope.
But, of course, finding that special someone among the rows of red hats means a lot of getting-to-know-you before you’re ready to hand them the final rose - er, papal tiara.
And with many of the newcomers coming from relatively quiet backgrounds or hailing from areas that do not typically see cardinal appointments, there are a lot of new faces.
Could the cardinals end up picking one of their newest members to be that special someone come conclave time? We can’t say for sure, but to help them — and readers — get to know the newcomers, The Pillar conducted a speed round of interviews with seven of the new cardinals ahead of the consistory, and to see how they might stack up at a future conclave.
The interviews have been edited for length and clarity. Some were translated from the language in which they were conducted.
Cardinal Vicente Bokalic, CM, Bishop of Santiago del Estero and Primate of Argentina
You are the bishop of Santiago del Estero, which is a small diocese but is now the primatial see of Argentina. There have been many changes in your life and ministry recently. How have you reacted?
With surprise and joy; the people in Santiago del Estero are very happy to have been officially declared the primatial see of the country, which is a historical recognition. [Santiago del Estero] is where the Church in Argentina began, when the country was not yet Argentina. So what Francis did was recognize those roots, as it happens in many countries where the primatial see is not the capital. For us, all this was a shock and an incentive to work more.
In Latin America, particularly in countries such as Argentina, secularization is accelerating. Are the Argentinean bishops worried about this? What solution or answer do you offer?
The first thing is to listen to the young people who at this moment are infected by this thing, although it is a universal process. Secularization is advancing everywhere but more in the big cities - it is not so noticeable in the deep interior of the country, but we also have some of it.
It is a challenge; we have to ask ourselves how we propose the Gospel today to young people, and how we reach young people with the message of Jesus. We believe that we have something to offer them in the face of the emptiness of secularization, in the face of the lack of meaning in life. The proposal of Jesus is still valid. We have to recreate the codes, the language and the style, and the style should be to get closer to the people. It is not condemning them, but to get close to them.
It is said in Argentina that the Church has forgotten to preach a spiritual message and is instead focusing exclusively on social issues. What do you think about this?
We know very clearly that our mission is to evangelize, to bring the Gospel, but that Gospel is incarnated in social commitment. Faith is expressed in social commitment, in society, in the world of work, in the scientific world, etc. Therefore, a faith that simply remains closed in itself and does not see reality is a faith that is not authentic.
There is much talk in Argentina of a confrontation between the bishops and the government. Is this true, or would you consider the process one of dialogue?
We insist that the Gospel and being Church includes a social doctrine of the Church that must be applied. It has to be lived and applied to help overcome great social and economic problems. Now, we always want to do this in a climate of dialogue, not confrontation, always starting to look for solutions, as we have always done. We seek meetings with the political authorities, and with members of parliament. But we are 'going out,' being proactive.
Cardinal Fernando Chomalí, Archbishop of Santiago de Chile
Chile is perhaps the Latin American country that is secularizing the fastest, there is a very complicated vocational situation, and the abuse crisis in the country has worsened the situation. How can the Church respond to these challenges?
The secularization process precedes the abuse crisis by many years, that has to be clear. We are in a society that opted for economic progress, a society that forgot the spiritual dimension of the human being. A society that is a little intoxicated by materialism and entertainment.
But I think that this will not last long because there is no affinity for these things, and I think that there is a whole movement that wants to recognize again the family as the center of society, a movement that wants to recognize human fraternity. And in that, the Church, like many other institutions, can contribute.
Since the abuse crisis in Chile, the Church has had a very timid position socially. You have taken a different perspective - you write a lot in the media, you are active on social media, and you receive public personalities and authorities, such as French President Emmanuel Macron recently. Why do you think it is important to have this public presence of the Church in Chile?
The Church has always had a very strong public presence because it has thousands of parishes, it has thousands of schools, it has universities.
That is the presence that actually matters.
It is a mistake to associate the activity of the Church with a public media presence. The fact that I am publicly active has more to do with my personality because I have always been an extroverted person. The Church has always been there, although it is true that it has not always been so visible.
But all the bishops, the bishops’ conference, have written several documents on very relevant topics. But that has more to do with the personalities of each one.
In a recent opinion column, you philosophically defended the link between truth, goodness, and freedom. Why is it important to keep doing this in a society that does not seem to want to listen?
There is a fundamental dimension of human life, which is philosophical and theological reflection, that is totally forgotten. When new universities are created, they usually think of having technical careers, but not of philosophical careers.
A country that does not reflect deeply on what it means to be human will hardly have good politics; it will hardly have strong social policies. And, therefore, I make a very strong call for the Catholic university to strengthen its study of philosophy and theology.
Unfortunately, we do not have interested students, because there is a very serious conceptual error: it is believed that countries develop when they develop economically. I believe that this is false.
Development is integral because human rationality is not only scientific, it is also ethical and esthetic, etc. And that is a contribution that the Catholic Church can make, which undoubtedly, from the intellectual point of view, has a specific weight of many years that supports it.
In the column, you talk about ‘ethical nihilism.’ Now Chile is a country with deep social inequalities and has received many migrants who feel more and more out of place. Do you think this is happening because of the nihilistic background you mention?
The underlying issue in Chile, Latin America, and the world, is that there is no common project. That is to say, there is no shared project as a society. [Instead,] it is believed that the common good is going to come about when each individual good is satisfied. This is false.
Secondly, there is no strong personal ethical conception. That is to say, everyone thinks that society has to allow him to carry out his own project, his own desire. And that is also false because we are communitarian beings by nature and everything we do has an impact on others.
Thirdly, there is a lack of a sense of community. Some people protest legitimate rights, but they do it by breaking, attacking the public goods that serve us all.
And that, undoubtedly, has to do with an absence of what it means to be a human being who is intimately linked to others. That is why the social dimension of life has been forgotten.
And I believe that the Church recovers this beautifully when she says that we are children of the same Father and that, therefore, we are brothers and sisters. The concept of fraternity has been weakened because the concept of what it means to be a human being has been weakened, which is not only to live with others but to live for others.
That is to say, Christian anthropology says that if we want to be happy, we have to give ourselves to others. And secular anthropology tells us that we have to seek happiness by our own means. But things end up badly for us that way because we find ourselves in a society that competes but doesn't find itself. And that is precisely where conflicts arise.
Cardinal Mykola Bychok, CSsR, Eparch of Saints Peter and Paul of Melbourne
There have been certain tensions between the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and the Holy See due to their positions on the war in Ukraine. How do you think your appointment as a cardinal can help ease these tensions and help the Greek Catholic Church and the Holy See be on the same page regarding the war?
I just will quote His Beatitude Sviatoslav Shevchuk, who is the leader and father of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church around the world. After my appointment, he said before that this appointment, there was one voice, and right now there will be two voices, which means it’s his voice and [now] my voice.
We will try as best as we can to bring the whole truth about the war in Ukraine to His Holiness. We will try to free our children. As you know, many children were moved from these occupied areas to Russia, and I'm really grateful to the Holy See because they are doing a great job to free our children, to free our captives, and to help us in this war. We are not alone. We are with God. We are with the Catholic Church and we are with the pope.
Cardinal Rolandas Makrickas, coadjutor archpriest of the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore
Traditionally, we think of cardinals as archbishops of great dioceses or curial officials. But Francis has changed that quite a bit in the last few years. You were a diplomat, and now you serve in the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore. Why do you think that the pope believed you would make a good fit as a cardinal?
It would be a good question to ask the Holy Father (laughs).
But he does not follow traditional ways to find solutions for the Church and is also able to innovate. On many occasions, you can see that the pope wants to think of new ways of governing the Church to answer to the needs of the world.
This shows that the Church is alive, and that we are not bound to respect some rules, but we must respect first the Gospel and respect the person. This is the main thing. Solutions can be different, we can approach things differently regardless of how they were approached in the past.
You were a diplomat for most of your priestly life, so you probably saw the trend of secularization in many countries. Is this something that worries you about the Church or do you see hope for the future?
What the Church has to do is proclaim the good news of the Gospel, and celebrate the sacraments. This is our task. God is guiding us with His will and because the Church is not our creation, it is God’s creation and the Holy Spirit is working in the Church.
So, in every time and occasion, the Church invites us to give a good testimony of Christian life.
Now, the world is changing. There are very sad things in our society and conflicts worldwide. We see confusion in the minds of a lot of people; what people are looking for from the Church is its message of truth and the good testimony of Christian life. If we have this in the Church, God will do the rest.
There is a lot of tension from outside and inside the Church to have it adapt its truth to the times. Is this the way to go?
What we have to adapt to the times is the approach, the way we present our teachings, not the content because the Gospel is one, for everyone and every time.
Cardinal Baldassare Reina, vicar general of Rome
Do you see your election as a personal vote of confidence from the pope?
Certainly, it is an act of trust on the part of the Holy Father, but all things that have to do with individuals within the Church always have an ecclesial significance, so it seems to me to be an act of trust and an embrace of the whole diocese of Rome.
Italy, particularly Rome, is rapidly secularizing. Is this a concern for the Church? How should we respond?
Indeed, it is a great concern. We are breathing a climate that is more and more distant from the values of the Gospel. The antidote is that of a new evangelization as John Paul II already called for more than two decades ago now. Namely, Christian communities that feel the need for mission and proclamation of the Gospel by looking at the signs of the times.
There is a lot of pressure on the Church to adapt to the times, is this the solution?
No, absolutely not. The Church always listens to what man lives today. Yet, the moral teachings have a solid foundation: the teachings of Holy Scripture and what God has always revealed. So, the Church does not need to adapt to the times but must act in such a way that the times adapt to the logic of the Gospel.
Are you paraphrasing Chesterton?
Exactly (laughs).
Cardinal Jaime Spengler, OFM, Archbishop of Porto Alegre (Brazil)
Porto Alegre is not traditionally a cardinalatial see. Were you surprised by the appointment?
In the past, in the 1970s, Porto Alegre had a cardinal, Dom Vicente Scherer, who led the archdiocese for many, many years. However, Dom Vicente's three successors before me were not made cardinals, so it was a big surprise for me and everyone in the archdiocese.
Brazil suffers on the one hand from populism and on the other from progressivism that embraces abortion, LGBT causes, etc. How should the Church deal with this?
We, as the Church, as baptized people who are part of society, of course, find ourselves challenged by these issues, all of which in some way involve everyday life.
I always like to repeat that we are called to bear witness to what we believe in this context specifically, that is, to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world. These are delicate issues that require special insight and sensitivity, and we as men of the Church have a responsibility. I would say it's not about taking sides, but about understanding what is really at stake.
It's not about simply being for or against one thing or another. That's very easy.
It's about presenting arguments that are up to the level of the issues and challenges that are presented, and creating spaces for dialogue with the various groups defending or opposing them, with different ideologies. It's not an easy job; it requires availability, openness of heart and, above all, I would say frankness.
Sometimes, in Brazil, people argue that the Church doesn't speak out strongly enough on these issues. Do you agree with that?
No. Over the years, the bishops' conference has always been very clear about its positions and we have a history of doing so. This week we made a public statement while Congress discussed a law to legalize casinos and betting. The Church already has a tradition on this issue, and we have reaffirmed it and will continue to do so.
Brazil has been the focus of discussion about a new rite for the Amazon, the institution of married priests, and the female diaconate. You have criticized some of these proposals or have at least made a call to prudence, but do you think that the Brazilian bishops are in tune?
There is great communion within the bishops' conference. The questions you raise are certainly ones that require further study.
I always like to say that there is a single rite in the [Latin] Church: The Roman rite and this rite needs to be and is called to be adapted to the different cultural realities. Creating the conditions for this adaptation requires, I believe, the best means for us to find the necessary means for inculturation to happen harmoniously. It's not a question of bringing in a rite from outside to make reality adapt to it. Moreover, how many cultures are there in that reality?
And languages.
Languages, yes! If I'm not mistaken, there are more than a hundred of them [in the Amazon]. What are the anthropologies, so to speak, that underlie all these cultures and languages? Keeping all this in mind is not a simple job.
In addition, I read a very interesting article that caught my attention regarding celibacy in the Latin Catholic Church. I found some elements in it that I might not have thought of before. [Celibacy] is indeed a disciplinary issue, but it is more than just a disciplinary issue. I like to say that when Jesus calls the apostles to follow him, he asks everything of them. And everything means everything, not just a few things in their lives.
Cardinal Jean-Paul Vesco, OP, Archbishop of Algiers (Algeria)
You’re a cardinal from the peripheries. Were you surprised by your appointment?
Indeed, a huge, huge surprise. I couldn't imagine that I would be made a cardinal because there is already a cardinal in the North African Bishops’ Conference - Cardinal Cristóbal López Romero in the Archdiocese of Rabat. We are just 10 bishops in North Africa, so I wouldn’t imagine there would be a second cardinal. Two cardinals for 10 bishops is a good proportion (laughs), but I wouldn’t imagine that it would happen.
The pope has insisted on respect for the basic rights of people with same-sex attraction in Africa, as many African countries penalize homosexual acts, even with a death sentence. How does the Church work to help people in this situation?
We help them as we can. But in these countries, we cannot do advocacy. If people who are LGBTQ want to come and meet us in a church facility, in countries such as Algeria, we might be the only place in which they can talk and get help, so be it. We take care of the person, we don’t judge the person, we try to help them, but we don’t do advocacy. Our Church is not here to do that in this context.
We have to be prudent in this subject. The [local] mentality has to grow but we also have to see that it’s not like Europe is a model or is at the top of these reflections. We start with respecting and not judging anybody, but each society finds its own way to move forward.
You're from the Order of Preachers, but how is it to preach the Gospel in an Islamic country such as Algeria?
Well, I preach in the church, but they are not there (laughs).
So, I have to be both in the church and where people are. I'm with them. So, my way of preaching is to be a man worthy of trust. I‘d like to recognize trustworthy men and women in the Muslims to whom I speak, not because they are Muslim, but because they are people.
One can easily be Christian and not be worthy of trust. And I think that we need to build a world with men and women who are trustworthy and see ourselves as such. And I do not need to tell myself when I see someone, “They should become Christian, that would be good for them,” because that breaks the relationship.
Every time a Muslim comes to me and I feel that he seeks a relationship because deep down he would like to tell me that I should become Muslim, then the relationship is broken.
And I tell myself that this is not a smart move, and I don’t want to do that to others. So when I see someone as they are, I can answer their questions, I can testify with my life; I do not remain quiet but I do not try to see in them the Christian they could become.
I like this from Cardinal Chomali: “A country that does not reflect deeply on what it means to be human will hardly have good politics”
One can easily be Christian and not be worthy of trust. And I think that we need to build a world with men and women who are trustworthy and see ourselves as such. And I do not need to tell myself when I see someone, “They should become Christian, that would be good for them,” because that breaks the relationship
I do not understand this mindset.