The Orthodox commentary I've seen has definitely portrayed the move of Hilarion as a demotion most likely provoked by his criticism (perhaps largely private) of the Ukrainian war. Hilarion previously spent 6 years in Budapest, which I think is useful context for why he was sent (back) there.
It seems to me that parents who are well catechized and generally living their faith tend to be really annoyed that they have to take baptism classes (which they could probably teach without any preparation), and poorly catechized parents aren't going to be equipped for Christian parenting in a one hour meet with the DRE. In any event, the same baptism class is not going to serve both demographics.
It seems to me that ideally there would be multiple tracks, with formation on the basics for those who need the basics and deeper formation for those who don't need the basics. I could have taught the baptism class my husband and I "took," but I would love to have been introduced to saints who were parents, or to other families in the parish, or learned about our vocation as lay people, or - especially as a woman - hear some things that might be helpful as I discern what to do with my career (eg what does Vatican II say about the lay vocation?).
But the obvious problem here is how do you make this distinction? A placement test? That is the best idea I have, and it's a terrible one.
Regarding sacramental prep for baptism…In our fairly large parish with many young families we have one person (myself) doing baptismal prep. It is required before baptism and classes are scheduled the same day every other month. With a little planning I find parents make it work. For last minute classes or those who just forgot, I’ve done them off-schedule.
It is a valuable moment to evangelize young adults on the importance not only of baptism, but family and the role parents play in the faith of their children. I spend as much time on what mom and dad should be doing at home as what happens at the baptism. With dads being the primary determinant of a Catholic future for the kids, I cover their role, why they’re here and how they can positively or negatively affect their family’s future. It’s a very candid conversation, but often fruitful.
We attended a baptism prep class as godparents (was required for us). The class I remember being really interesting and a good dive into the sacrament. So much so that one of the parents (large, faithful Catholic family) mentioned it was the best one they’d had to attend for all their kids. This class was actually taught by some of the Deacons/Seminarians from the NAC in Rome who help at our parish.
For my daughter’s baptism there wasn’t a formal class, just chatting with the priest.
I was required to go to a baptism prep class before the baptism of my son a few years ago. The deacon who taught the class explicitly told the assembled group of two dozen or so parents that Adam and Eve never existed, that the story of the Fall was nothing more than an allegory, and that original sin was nothing more than an ancient concept that attempted to explain the lack of concord in human societies. So glad we got that catechesis.
Thoughts on requiring the birth certificate for baptism? Our current parish states that they require this. When I asked about it (at our previous parish this was not a requirement, and it took me months to get my kids’ birth certificates!) was told that the parish “would baptize without a birth certificate, but wouldn’t give a baptismal certificate until receipt of the birth certificate.” It feels a bit like requirements for requirements’ sake! Is this even legit??
I got to skip baptism class for my second child but not for my last child because people figure that if it has been too long you have forgotten everything. What would have made "baptism class for those who are re-enlisting" more palatable to me: an offer of free babysitting. I don't mind how many times someone wants to form me but they need to acknowledge the realities of my existence while they are doing so. :)
My experience: a 30 minute video for baptism #1 and none during baptism #2. In fairness, number 2 was during covid.
Want to know what would work? For new parents who don't have kids, a smoked meat and beer theology on tap style prep class one evening. Salutary effect number 1: people would want to be there and learn better. Salutary effect number 2: you could build a community of families, a good prophylactic against wandering off after the baptism. Salutary effect number 3: if the KofC provides the meat and booze they could snag a few more members.
For those that already have kids, use some commonsense about whether they are engaged in parish and faith life (probably dont need a class) and those who aren't (probably do). If your parish is too big to make that call, then give an option to test out.
I’m not a huge fan of Matthew Walther, as I find him needlessly abrasive and rash in some judgements, but that was a very beautiful and moving - and indeed brave - essay.
I sincerely hope it helps people better understand the reality of life in the womb. We need more personal stories like this to change hearts.
For our first we had a pretty good class, actually. We got to skip it for our second, even though at a different church, as our pastor knew us well.
What I really struggle with is getting the actual baptism done soon enough for my liking! A lot of my mom friends agree that if we could, we'd just send the little one to church with the godparents on day 2 or so. But the parish office won't schedule anything until the baby's born, and so we all end up waiting at least 3 weeks and it's just nerve-wracking. Of course God isn't limited by the Sacraments, and it's *possible* that my unbaptized newborn could suddenly pass away and still go to Heaven...but it's not something I like dealing with at the same time as all the other postpartum nonsense.
Honestly, I can't imagine purposely waiting 5+ years if you believe that baptism provides real grace and creates a real change in the soul. I do have quite a few relatives who are semi-lapsed and think the Sacraments are just symbols, and the tendency there is to baptize the children later (when Grandma finally puts her foot down) without ever really engaging. That's its own depressing topic- how many of those older child baptisms represent an actual family return to the church, I wonder.
I didn’t quite understand the purpose of the baptism class when my husband and I took it. There was nothing taught that wasn’t part of Catholic formation classes or RCIA. In other words, if you’re Catholic and have received even just your first communion, you know why you’re pursuing baptism for your child. The notion of vetting a family for intent to raise a child as Catholic seems quite counterintuitive to me. Once a family has reached out to a church for baptism, they are obviously taking a first and critically important step toward providing a Catholic Christian foundation for their child. If the family is just having the child baptized to satisfy the desire/demands of a family member, for example, they would probably have no qualms about checking other required boxes to achieve the same end. Regardless, in consideration of the Grace obtained through the Sacrament of baptism, it seems the Church would baptize the child anyway for the benefit of the child. I understand the request of birth certificates because that is part of the records kept by the Church and will serve in documentation for later Sacraments. However, looking at the catechism and it’s direction for baptizing as soon as possible, it seems an allowance should be made for the documentation to be submitted at a later date in exchange for the baptismal certificate- as mentioned in a previous comment.
We went to a baptism a few years ago where the priest told the assembled multitude that we weren’t there for the babies, we were there for us because baptism is an outward sign to community. Perhaps he would benefit from some of the catechetical options shared by y’all!
The Orthodox commentary I've seen has definitely portrayed the move of Hilarion as a demotion most likely provoked by his criticism (perhaps largely private) of the Ukrainian war. Hilarion previously spent 6 years in Budapest, which I think is useful context for why he was sent (back) there.
Re baptism prep
It seems to me that parents who are well catechized and generally living their faith tend to be really annoyed that they have to take baptism classes (which they could probably teach without any preparation), and poorly catechized parents aren't going to be equipped for Christian parenting in a one hour meet with the DRE. In any event, the same baptism class is not going to serve both demographics.
It seems to me that ideally there would be multiple tracks, with formation on the basics for those who need the basics and deeper formation for those who don't need the basics. I could have taught the baptism class my husband and I "took," but I would love to have been introduced to saints who were parents, or to other families in the parish, or learned about our vocation as lay people, or - especially as a woman - hear some things that might be helpful as I discern what to do with my career (eg what does Vatican II say about the lay vocation?).
But the obvious problem here is how do you make this distinction? A placement test? That is the best idea I have, and it's a terrible one.
Regarding sacramental prep for baptism…In our fairly large parish with many young families we have one person (myself) doing baptismal prep. It is required before baptism and classes are scheduled the same day every other month. With a little planning I find parents make it work. For last minute classes or those who just forgot, I’ve done them off-schedule.
It is a valuable moment to evangelize young adults on the importance not only of baptism, but family and the role parents play in the faith of their children. I spend as much time on what mom and dad should be doing at home as what happens at the baptism. With dads being the primary determinant of a Catholic future for the kids, I cover their role, why they’re here and how they can positively or negatively affect their family’s future. It’s a very candid conversation, but often fruitful.
We attended a baptism prep class as godparents (was required for us). The class I remember being really interesting and a good dive into the sacrament. So much so that one of the parents (large, faithful Catholic family) mentioned it was the best one they’d had to attend for all their kids. This class was actually taught by some of the Deacons/Seminarians from the NAC in Rome who help at our parish.
For my daughter’s baptism there wasn’t a formal class, just chatting with the priest.
I was required to go to a baptism prep class before the baptism of my son a few years ago. The deacon who taught the class explicitly told the assembled group of two dozen or so parents that Adam and Eve never existed, that the story of the Fall was nothing more than an allegory, and that original sin was nothing more than an ancient concept that attempted to explain the lack of concord in human societies. So glad we got that catechesis.
Thoughts on requiring the birth certificate for baptism? Our current parish states that they require this. When I asked about it (at our previous parish this was not a requirement, and it took me months to get my kids’ birth certificates!) was told that the parish “would baptize without a birth certificate, but wouldn’t give a baptismal certificate until receipt of the birth certificate.” It feels a bit like requirements for requirements’ sake! Is this even legit??
I got to skip baptism class for my second child but not for my last child because people figure that if it has been too long you have forgotten everything. What would have made "baptism class for those who are re-enlisting" more palatable to me: an offer of free babysitting. I don't mind how many times someone wants to form me but they need to acknowledge the realities of my existence while they are doing so. :)
I don’t quite understand the baptismal “gatekeeping” idea. I’m curious under what circumstances would a priest need to deny an infant baptism?
My experience: a 30 minute video for baptism #1 and none during baptism #2. In fairness, number 2 was during covid.
Want to know what would work? For new parents who don't have kids, a smoked meat and beer theology on tap style prep class one evening. Salutary effect number 1: people would want to be there and learn better. Salutary effect number 2: you could build a community of families, a good prophylactic against wandering off after the baptism. Salutary effect number 3: if the KofC provides the meat and booze they could snag a few more members.
For those that already have kids, use some commonsense about whether they are engaged in parish and faith life (probably dont need a class) and those who aren't (probably do). If your parish is too big to make that call, then give an option to test out.
If the pastor or other bureaucrats won’t baptize a child until conditions are met, the parents should do it themselves.
I’m not a huge fan of Matthew Walther, as I find him needlessly abrasive and rash in some judgements, but that was a very beautiful and moving - and indeed brave - essay.
I sincerely hope it helps people better understand the reality of life in the womb. We need more personal stories like this to change hearts.
For our first we had a pretty good class, actually. We got to skip it for our second, even though at a different church, as our pastor knew us well.
What I really struggle with is getting the actual baptism done soon enough for my liking! A lot of my mom friends agree that if we could, we'd just send the little one to church with the godparents on day 2 or so. But the parish office won't schedule anything until the baby's born, and so we all end up waiting at least 3 weeks and it's just nerve-wracking. Of course God isn't limited by the Sacraments, and it's *possible* that my unbaptized newborn could suddenly pass away and still go to Heaven...but it's not something I like dealing with at the same time as all the other postpartum nonsense.
Honestly, I can't imagine purposely waiting 5+ years if you believe that baptism provides real grace and creates a real change in the soul. I do have quite a few relatives who are semi-lapsed and think the Sacraments are just symbols, and the tendency there is to baptize the children later (when Grandma finally puts her foot down) without ever really engaging. That's its own depressing topic- how many of those older child baptisms represent an actual family return to the church, I wonder.
I didn’t quite understand the purpose of the baptism class when my husband and I took it. There was nothing taught that wasn’t part of Catholic formation classes or RCIA. In other words, if you’re Catholic and have received even just your first communion, you know why you’re pursuing baptism for your child. The notion of vetting a family for intent to raise a child as Catholic seems quite counterintuitive to me. Once a family has reached out to a church for baptism, they are obviously taking a first and critically important step toward providing a Catholic Christian foundation for their child. If the family is just having the child baptized to satisfy the desire/demands of a family member, for example, they would probably have no qualms about checking other required boxes to achieve the same end. Regardless, in consideration of the Grace obtained through the Sacrament of baptism, it seems the Church would baptize the child anyway for the benefit of the child. I understand the request of birth certificates because that is part of the records kept by the Church and will serve in documentation for later Sacraments. However, looking at the catechism and it’s direction for baptizing as soon as possible, it seems an allowance should be made for the documentation to be submitted at a later date in exchange for the baptismal certificate- as mentioned in a previous comment.
We went to a baptism a few years ago where the priest told the assembled multitude that we weren’t there for the babies, we were there for us because baptism is an outward sign to community. Perhaps he would benefit from some of the catechetical options shared by y’all!
Are you sure the baptism of older children isn't just parents looking for cheap daycare?