“ Just three weeks ago, Simone Biles was celebrated in the Catholic press as an exemplar.”
I think that’s pushing it. In the stories I read, her Catholicism was one detail among many. As for the harsh reaction she’s gotten to her public support for abortion rights I suspect it’s caught up in the disappointment of much of the American public with “letting her team down” in the team event last month.
I don't know how you all have the fortitude for social media or most media in general (present company absolutely excluded). You must be made of stronger stuff. My brief forays into social media have all ended at the same place: desolation, anxiety about things of this world, and the dark joy of gossip and opinion sharing. Absolutely toxic to my interior life but addictive to the point I need to just absolutely refrain.
Thank you for the interesting profile on Matt Simpson and goalball. One thing that stuck out to me, and it may have just been a throwaway line and I'm reading too much into it, is that it said that they've spent a lot of time in the film room. I'm genuinely curious how that would be adapted for blind or almost-blind people. Obviously film review is a very important part of elite-level sports, so it just strikes me that this is another barrier to overcome. I'm guessing maybe there's a translator who watches the video and translates it for the players, maybe into Braille, or describes it out loud and they are able to visualize it? Anyway, hopefully they're able to take home the gold.
I asked Matt about that, because I was curious too. A coach audio describes the game, and they listen. He said they can listen to patterns and tells -- teams that like a lot of chatter, teams that use a lot of fakes, etc. Pretty cool, huh?
I sincerely appreciate your take on Celebrity Catholics. Because it happens over and over and over again. "Mel Gibson is awesome!" then "Oops, wait he's divorced now! What a scum bag." Or "Mark Wahlburg goes to daily mass!" then "Oops, He just starred in another questionable movie. Guess he's in league with Satan." It gets exhausting canonizing (and then de-canonizing) people because we are so desperate to claim any corner of pop culture.
If I'm a bring in something from the podcast (and if I may not feel free to delete this or tell me that I should), with respect to the vaccination question I appreciated your analysis that declination of the vaccine presents other obligations to the common good to avoid transmission. It seems the most basic alternative becomes wearing a mask and frequent testing if you decline to be vaccinated.
I wonder, however, whether in the Venn diagram of those people that refuse the vaccination and those people that refuse to wear masks voluntarily there is any discontinuity. My anecdotal experience is that those who do not want to be vaccinated also do not want to have to wear a mask,but also do not refrain from public life.
At risk of holding an unpopular opinion on the greater Catholic Internet, I think the mindset you outlined really turns the Church’s teaching on the value of suffering and the possibility of offering a heroic witness on its head. I absolutely respect people not wanting to get the vaccine for moral reasons while nonetheless seeking to protect themselves and their neighbours through minor inconveniences like wearing a mask and social distancing, but like you mentioned, I think the Venn diagram might look a little odd because of how politicized such things have become.
I hope I did not turn things on their head. I agree there can be great witness to that decision. My concern is that the witness is more to one's politics than one's faith, given that many unvaccinated refuse to take other steps to limit the transmission of COVID. (Indeed, in some places they seem to revel in that decision.)
Ah, my apologies Steve! I must’ve worded my comment poorly. I was agreeing with you in that the desire to refuse the vaccine while also protesting such things as wearing a mask misses the point of the heroic witness such a choice calls for.
With charity to you both, I feel the 'anecdotal experience' that is referenced is polluted with people that have not truly discerned this matter as is generalizing unfairly those that have and are 'suffering' for their choice. Myself, my wife, and a number of family, friends, and colleagues have thoughtfully discerned this and are living their lives to their conscience for the sake of their souls. All of us are happily abiding with mask mandates et al, including the severely restrictive lockdowns imposed on us in Australia (both Sydney and Melbourne). Maybe we are the minority of your true anecdotal experience, but I think we deserve respect and love for our decision and suffering. 'Do no harm' cuts both ways.
To be clear, I know nothing of the Aussie experience. I am an American, and it doesn't take much exploration to see how anti Vax rhetoric aligns with anti mask rhetoric.
Do you think it may be possible that people conscientiously object to the experimental shots because of the well-documented adverse events (over 6,000 deaths), and also conscientiously object to mask wearing because peer reviewed scientific studies have proven they do little-to-no good in preventing the spread of respiratory viruses? I encourage everyone to read the science for themselves, and not just blindly accept what they are told by those in power.
For most people, the experimental shots are more risky than the disease itself. Like I said, there have been 6,631 reported deaths shortly after receiving the shot (as of August 9, per the CDC). That's just what is reported in VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System). Based on known underreporting to the system, some believe the number could be ten times as high. By contrast, from 1999 and 2019, there were 3,167 deaths related to all vaccines combined. For a disease with a survival rate greater than 99.9% for most people, which we know how to treat, the shot poses the greater risk.
With masks, I encourage you to read studies conducted before 2020 that show cloth masks are effectively useless in reducing the spread of viruses as small as the one we're dealing with. The size of the holes in the fabric is much bigger than the virus we're trying to stop. It's like trying to stop a mosquito with a chain link fence.
I've already gone on too long, and this is not the right forum to go in depth on all this. But please understand, from the perspective of those of us who object to the shot and to masks, we are not be irresponsible or callous toward others. We're choosing not to live in fear, or to participate in a lie. And we have solid scientific reasons on which we base that choice.
wearing a mask and frequent testing are not the most basic (nor most effective) "other obligations". Time and again, such viruses are best suppressed by keeping hands clean, not touching your face, covering coughs and isolating when ill. The silver lining with covid should be that we can reduce not only covid deaths, but also reduce the 10's of 1000's of deaths to the common cold each year. Since 2010, more than 1/2 million have been lost to the common cold.
The Pillar's article on the Assumption notes that the feast marks the kickoff for a period of fasting, St Michael's Lent, for some Romans, but it also marks the conclusion of the Dormition Fast, one of the four great fasts of the Eastern Catholic Churches. Our parish (and I'm sure others) will be celebrating the breaking of the fast together after Liturgy (and we do break our fasts well!).
I absolutely agree with your take on the whole Catholic celebrity media phenomena, Ed. I think it’s great if famous people like Simone Biles are (or were raised) Catholic, and I wish them all the best in their spiritual and personal endeavours. However, the desire to have “One Of” Us in the field of politics, entertainment, sports or whatever else it may be can lead to an unhealthy canonization of (more likely than not) a normal person who probably goes to Mass on Sundays and/or holy-days and says the rosary for time to time. I don’t need the imagined support of a celebrity or politician to hold my pro-life opinions or to justify my communion with the Church of Rome. It’s awful that people like Joe Biden believe themselves to be Catholic while supporting so many things contrary to the Faith, but I never expected to find Blessed Karl in Washington, D.C. May God have mercy on us all!
Additionally, I think the reaction in some parts Catholic Social Media to Simone’s tragic post was very counterproductive. Many Catholics in my circle had already bought into the secular conservative outrage directed against her for stepping down from one of her events when she had “the twisties.” As one of my friends put it, he “knew there was something off about her.” Maybe she was a BLM Marxist Antifa Communist Lib in disguise all along!!!... or more likely just a poorly catechized teen who has suffered a lot at the hands of those who were supposed to protect her. I think her post should really serve as an indictment of the U.S. foster-care system and those of us who let it get so bad. She is ABSOLUTELY in the wrong for buying into the rhetorical pablum of “My Body, My Choice,” but we as the pro-life movement ought to try to show her the beauty of life and the coherence of our position instead of savaging her for a largely media-manufactured letdown.
So my question is…I listened to Ed’s explanation of conscience regarding the covid vaccine. If schools require certain vaccines for students, how does that requirement fit with the moral agency one has regarding vaccines, especially when it comes to avid anti-vaxxers?
I would imagine it boils down to what other means would one use to achieve the same ends with respect to preventing deleterious effects on others. In the COVID context mask wearing and frequent testing is a good enough proxy if actually done. Other vaccines not directed to airborne disease may require different approaches
Bringing in an element of the podcast to this comment section.
Ed and JD, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you both. But neither of you would stand a chance against a chimp in a death match. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. Chimps are, pound for pound, anywhere between 1.5-2.5 times as strong as humans males proportionally. Chimps have sharp teeth and great jaw strength. Chimps have substantially more "quick twitch" muscle fiber than humans proportionally- thus, Chimps have superior top speed and acceleration relative to even the fittest humans. Physically, a human's only advantage is sheer size.
Chimps are, generally, capable of extreme aggression and demonstrate no compunction concerning the mutilation of human or chimpanzee opponents. Y'all, like myself, are sedentary American males. I haven't thrown a kick or punch seriously in years. Unless either of you have a serious background in boxing/MMA I've never heard about, the average chimp's close combat ability substantially outstrips yours.
It's entirely possible a lucky kick or strike could kill the chimp- they are rather small relative to you or I. But outside of Mike Tyson of old, Khabib Nurmagomedov, or an NFL lineman, I favor any chimp over a man.
Regarding the ill treatment of Simone Biles: I'm a firm believer that one can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Fewer insults and more patient explanation of the reason behind the Church's position is a better strategy, albeit not one easily deployable on social media.
“ Just three weeks ago, Simone Biles was celebrated in the Catholic press as an exemplar.”
I think that’s pushing it. In the stories I read, her Catholicism was one detail among many. As for the harsh reaction she’s gotten to her public support for abortion rights I suspect it’s caught up in the disappointment of much of the American public with “letting her team down” in the team event last month.
I don't know how you all have the fortitude for social media or most media in general (present company absolutely excluded). You must be made of stronger stuff. My brief forays into social media have all ended at the same place: desolation, anxiety about things of this world, and the dark joy of gossip and opinion sharing. Absolutely toxic to my interior life but addictive to the point I need to just absolutely refrain.
from an evolutionary perspective and timescale, human beings have not evolved to be in direct communication with so many at once. It's not natural! :)
I’m a proud ultra-Catholic and “sinister religious nutter.” Or maybe I’m just Catholic….a rare breed these days.
Thank you for the interesting profile on Matt Simpson and goalball. One thing that stuck out to me, and it may have just been a throwaway line and I'm reading too much into it, is that it said that they've spent a lot of time in the film room. I'm genuinely curious how that would be adapted for blind or almost-blind people. Obviously film review is a very important part of elite-level sports, so it just strikes me that this is another barrier to overcome. I'm guessing maybe there's a translator who watches the video and translates it for the players, maybe into Braille, or describes it out loud and they are able to visualize it? Anyway, hopefully they're able to take home the gold.
I asked Matt about that, because I was curious too. A coach audio describes the game, and they listen. He said they can listen to patterns and tells -- teams that like a lot of chatter, teams that use a lot of fakes, etc. Pretty cool, huh?
I sincerely appreciate your take on Celebrity Catholics. Because it happens over and over and over again. "Mel Gibson is awesome!" then "Oops, wait he's divorced now! What a scum bag." Or "Mark Wahlburg goes to daily mass!" then "Oops, He just starred in another questionable movie. Guess he's in league with Satan." It gets exhausting canonizing (and then de-canonizing) people because we are so desperate to claim any corner of pop culture.
If I'm a bring in something from the podcast (and if I may not feel free to delete this or tell me that I should), with respect to the vaccination question I appreciated your analysis that declination of the vaccine presents other obligations to the common good to avoid transmission. It seems the most basic alternative becomes wearing a mask and frequent testing if you decline to be vaccinated.
I wonder, however, whether in the Venn diagram of those people that refuse the vaccination and those people that refuse to wear masks voluntarily there is any discontinuity. My anecdotal experience is that those who do not want to be vaccinated also do not want to have to wear a mask,but also do not refrain from public life.
At risk of holding an unpopular opinion on the greater Catholic Internet, I think the mindset you outlined really turns the Church’s teaching on the value of suffering and the possibility of offering a heroic witness on its head. I absolutely respect people not wanting to get the vaccine for moral reasons while nonetheless seeking to protect themselves and their neighbours through minor inconveniences like wearing a mask and social distancing, but like you mentioned, I think the Venn diagram might look a little odd because of how politicized such things have become.
I hope I did not turn things on their head. I agree there can be great witness to that decision. My concern is that the witness is more to one's politics than one's faith, given that many unvaccinated refuse to take other steps to limit the transmission of COVID. (Indeed, in some places they seem to revel in that decision.)
Ah, my apologies Steve! I must’ve worded my comment poorly. I was agreeing with you in that the desire to refuse the vaccine while also protesting such things as wearing a mask misses the point of the heroic witness such a choice calls for.
With charity to you both, I feel the 'anecdotal experience' that is referenced is polluted with people that have not truly discerned this matter as is generalizing unfairly those that have and are 'suffering' for their choice. Myself, my wife, and a number of family, friends, and colleagues have thoughtfully discerned this and are living their lives to their conscience for the sake of their souls. All of us are happily abiding with mask mandates et al, including the severely restrictive lockdowns imposed on us in Australia (both Sydney and Melbourne). Maybe we are the minority of your true anecdotal experience, but I think we deserve respect and love for our decision and suffering. 'Do no harm' cuts both ways.
To be clear, I know nothing of the Aussie experience. I am an American, and it doesn't take much exploration to see how anti Vax rhetoric aligns with anti mask rhetoric.
Do you think it may be possible that people conscientiously object to the experimental shots because of the well-documented adverse events (over 6,000 deaths), and also conscientiously object to mask wearing because peer reviewed scientific studies have proven they do little-to-no good in preventing the spread of respiratory viruses? I encourage everyone to read the science for themselves, and not just blindly accept what they are told by those in power.
For most people, the experimental shots are more risky than the disease itself. Like I said, there have been 6,631 reported deaths shortly after receiving the shot (as of August 9, per the CDC). That's just what is reported in VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System). Based on known underreporting to the system, some believe the number could be ten times as high. By contrast, from 1999 and 2019, there were 3,167 deaths related to all vaccines combined. For a disease with a survival rate greater than 99.9% for most people, which we know how to treat, the shot poses the greater risk.
With masks, I encourage you to read studies conducted before 2020 that show cloth masks are effectively useless in reducing the spread of viruses as small as the one we're dealing with. The size of the holes in the fabric is much bigger than the virus we're trying to stop. It's like trying to stop a mosquito with a chain link fence.
I've already gone on too long, and this is not the right forum to go in depth on all this. But please understand, from the perspective of those of us who object to the shot and to masks, we are not be irresponsible or callous toward others. We're choosing not to live in fear, or to participate in a lie. And we have solid scientific reasons on which we base that choice.
wearing a mask and frequent testing are not the most basic (nor most effective) "other obligations". Time and again, such viruses are best suppressed by keeping hands clean, not touching your face, covering coughs and isolating when ill. The silver lining with covid should be that we can reduce not only covid deaths, but also reduce the 10's of 1000's of deaths to the common cold each year. Since 2010, more than 1/2 million have been lost to the common cold.
"isolating when ill" requires testing since there is ample evidence of asymptomatic transmission. You can't isolate if you don't know you're ill.
The Pillar's article on the Assumption notes that the feast marks the kickoff for a period of fasting, St Michael's Lent, for some Romans, but it also marks the conclusion of the Dormition Fast, one of the four great fasts of the Eastern Catholic Churches. Our parish (and I'm sure others) will be celebrating the breaking of the fast together after Liturgy (and we do break our fasts well!).
I absolutely agree with your take on the whole Catholic celebrity media phenomena, Ed. I think it’s great if famous people like Simone Biles are (or were raised) Catholic, and I wish them all the best in their spiritual and personal endeavours. However, the desire to have “One Of” Us in the field of politics, entertainment, sports or whatever else it may be can lead to an unhealthy canonization of (more likely than not) a normal person who probably goes to Mass on Sundays and/or holy-days and says the rosary for time to time. I don’t need the imagined support of a celebrity or politician to hold my pro-life opinions or to justify my communion with the Church of Rome. It’s awful that people like Joe Biden believe themselves to be Catholic while supporting so many things contrary to the Faith, but I never expected to find Blessed Karl in Washington, D.C. May God have mercy on us all!
Additionally, I think the reaction in some parts Catholic Social Media to Simone’s tragic post was very counterproductive. Many Catholics in my circle had already bought into the secular conservative outrage directed against her for stepping down from one of her events when she had “the twisties.” As one of my friends put it, he “knew there was something off about her.” Maybe she was a BLM Marxist Antifa Communist Lib in disguise all along!!!... or more likely just a poorly catechized teen who has suffered a lot at the hands of those who were supposed to protect her. I think her post should really serve as an indictment of the U.S. foster-care system and those of us who let it get so bad. She is ABSOLUTELY in the wrong for buying into the rhetorical pablum of “My Body, My Choice,” but we as the pro-life movement ought to try to show her the beauty of life and the coherence of our position instead of savaging her for a largely media-manufactured letdown.
Oops, I just realized she’s not a teen (24 and older than me, if I recall correctly). I think my point still stands though.
So my question is…I listened to Ed’s explanation of conscience regarding the covid vaccine. If schools require certain vaccines for students, how does that requirement fit with the moral agency one has regarding vaccines, especially when it comes to avid anti-vaxxers?
I would imagine it boils down to what other means would one use to achieve the same ends with respect to preventing deleterious effects on others. In the COVID context mask wearing and frequent testing is a good enough proxy if actually done. Other vaccines not directed to airborne disease may require different approaches
Super perspective on all. Thank you for 'being above'. Keep it up. Peace
Bringing in an element of the podcast to this comment section.
Ed and JD, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you both. But neither of you would stand a chance against a chimp in a death match. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. Chimps are, pound for pound, anywhere between 1.5-2.5 times as strong as humans males proportionally. Chimps have sharp teeth and great jaw strength. Chimps have substantially more "quick twitch" muscle fiber than humans proportionally- thus, Chimps have superior top speed and acceleration relative to even the fittest humans. Physically, a human's only advantage is sheer size.
Chimps are, generally, capable of extreme aggression and demonstrate no compunction concerning the mutilation of human or chimpanzee opponents. Y'all, like myself, are sedentary American males. I haven't thrown a kick or punch seriously in years. Unless either of you have a serious background in boxing/MMA I've never heard about, the average chimp's close combat ability substantially outstrips yours.
It's entirely possible a lucky kick or strike could kill the chimp- they are rather small relative to you or I. But outside of Mike Tyson of old, Khabib Nurmagomedov, or an NFL lineman, I favor any chimp over a man.
Regarding the ill treatment of Simone Biles: I'm a firm believer that one can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Fewer insults and more patient explanation of the reason behind the Church's position is a better strategy, albeit not one easily deployable on social media.