Deeply demoralized but sadly not a bit surprised by this. Those of us old enough to remember Democratic politics BEFORE Obama, knew that Biden is a consummate liar. He has proven time and again that he won't hesitate to lie in any situation to his political benefit starting with how his first wife died, his background and education and now to his meeting with Pope Francis. Rome had to know and expect this would happen and yet they let it play out. And yet I am not confident enough in this Pope to be 100% certain it didn't happen . That to me is the saddest part. Pope Francis has also proven time and again to send conflicting direction and information. This would have been painful no matter what but extremely hard to watch Biden almost gleefully advocate for and provide funding for the killing of children in the womb while waiving his Rosary after meeting with the Pope.
Excellent take as always. It’s a nuanced situation that likely would have been better served by an actual recording of the visit. It did not bring unity if that was the intent.
One of the more disheartening aspects of this fiasco is the impact on evangelization. Protestants considering crossing the Tiber have questioned me and others I know about the incident. The gist of their comments are focused on wondering when and why the Catholic Church abandoned its teaching on abortion and the sanctity of life.
Thanks JD, and sorry Ed for being reactively critical of your fine analysis. This whole situation really is just optimally frustrating and demoralizing. Keep up your good work! I really do especially love the podcast each week, and really am waiting for a cookbook alla Ed!
The little old ladies praying the Rosary with me at the clinic, AND Joe Biden, the best promoter that abortion clinic ever had, are both good Catholics? My Catholic neighbors, who attend Mass most Sundays, have a 'Keep Abortion Legal' sign on their front yard. They proudly voted for Joe Biden and are thrilled with Pope Francis. They told me their Theology professor at St. Joe's University told them they can support abortion if their consciences allow it. It would appear Pope Frances and most clergy agree with them.
I would like to make two prayer requests of readers: 1) For Joseph Biden, for obvious reasons, and 2) for the US Bishops, who cannot avoid clearly seeing the monumental evangelical challenge before them (and us) merely to keep the Church relevant in this country. We do not need a culture war in our faith - we need conversion of hearts of the currently baptized on a massive scale.
What this painfully illustrates is the dire need for more (and better) catechesis. This is of course what I think some bishops were trying to get at with the document on Eucharistic “coherence”, so there is a tragic irony in that document being iced due to Biden’s comments.
Great article, JD Flynn. Clearly, this is one more "brick in the wall" of division within the Church. Many Catholics feel abandoned by the church structure (the human element of the Church), and dare I say it, The Vatican. However, when I think of church history and how the Holy Spirit has guided The Church through the ages, I am faithfully comforted. I think now more than ever we need a radical reliance on Jesus Christ Himself and continued prayer to the Holy Spirit to guide us through all this. Remember, WE are the body of The Church.
Mr Flynn: I am tempted to accuse you of the new sin of "intellectualism" but I am not sure what that is so I will not do so. For me the situation is very simple. When Pope Francis said "Who am I to judge?" regardless of any context or explanation the world at last took that as meaning that buggery was okay. When Biden says the Pope said he was a "Good Catholic" and told him to carry on receiving communion despite his promotion of abortion, the world at large took that to mean the Pope had no problem with those promoting abortion. In the absence of any protest by the Pope that he had been grossly misrepresented by Biden, which any honest man would have made, one can only assume that that is the Pope's position. That is to say that while personally one may not like abortion and speak out against it there is nothing wrong with promoting abortion.
Austen Ivereigh tells us that Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor was Pope Francis's kingmaker. I had lengthy dealings with Cormac and that was precisely his position: that he may have deplored abortion (although I cannot point to any occasion when he did so) he would do nothing to prevent abortions when he was in a position to do so and was quite prepared to sack anyone who thought they could do so. Is that not similar to the position of Pope Francis?
Another thing to consider is that Joe Biden is a liar. The Catholic League put out an email which covered some of Mr. Biden's lies in great detail. It is also hard to know how much of Biden's statement may have been wishful thinking, given his apparent cognitive decline. In other words, he may have imagined that the Pope told him that. I continue to struggle with Pope Francis. I have to remember that the Church is Christ's gift to us, and that we sometimes have to look past the current leadership. The pontificate of JPII and B16 got us accustomed to Popes who were faithful to the Magisterium.
Deeply demoralized but sadly not a bit surprised by this. Those of us old enough to remember Democratic politics BEFORE Obama, knew that Biden is a consummate liar. He has proven time and again that he won't hesitate to lie in any situation to his political benefit starting with how his first wife died, his background and education and now to his meeting with Pope Francis. Rome had to know and expect this would happen and yet they let it play out. And yet I am not confident enough in this Pope to be 100% certain it didn't happen . That to me is the saddest part. Pope Francis has also proven time and again to send conflicting direction and information. This would have been painful no matter what but extremely hard to watch Biden almost gleefully advocate for and provide funding for the killing of children in the womb while waiving his Rosary after meeting with the Pope.
Excellent take as always. It’s a nuanced situation that likely would have been better served by an actual recording of the visit. It did not bring unity if that was the intent.
One of the more disheartening aspects of this fiasco is the impact on evangelization. Protestants considering crossing the Tiber have questioned me and others I know about the incident. The gist of their comments are focused on wondering when and why the Catholic Church abandoned its teaching on abortion and the sanctity of life.
Thanks JD, and sorry Ed for being reactively critical of your fine analysis. This whole situation really is just optimally frustrating and demoralizing. Keep up your good work! I really do especially love the podcast each week, and really am waiting for a cookbook alla Ed!
The little old ladies praying the Rosary with me at the clinic, AND Joe Biden, the best promoter that abortion clinic ever had, are both good Catholics? My Catholic neighbors, who attend Mass most Sundays, have a 'Keep Abortion Legal' sign on their front yard. They proudly voted for Joe Biden and are thrilled with Pope Francis. They told me their Theology professor at St. Joe's University told them they can support abortion if their consciences allow it. It would appear Pope Frances and most clergy agree with them.
I would like to make two prayer requests of readers: 1) For Joseph Biden, for obvious reasons, and 2) for the US Bishops, who cannot avoid clearly seeing the monumental evangelical challenge before them (and us) merely to keep the Church relevant in this country. We do not need a culture war in our faith - we need conversion of hearts of the currently baptized on a massive scale.
Scandalous tweet from Biden's account.
But to be fair, it is doubtful Biden is in full control of his twitter account, let alone his mental faculties.
What this painfully illustrates is the dire need for more (and better) catechesis. This is of course what I think some bishops were trying to get at with the document on Eucharistic “coherence”, so there is a tragic irony in that document being iced due to Biden’s comments.
Great article, JD Flynn. Clearly, this is one more "brick in the wall" of division within the Church. Many Catholics feel abandoned by the church structure (the human element of the Church), and dare I say it, The Vatican. However, when I think of church history and how the Holy Spirit has guided The Church through the ages, I am faithfully comforted. I think now more than ever we need a radical reliance on Jesus Christ Himself and continued prayer to the Holy Spirit to guide us through all this. Remember, WE are the body of The Church.
Mr Flynn: I am tempted to accuse you of the new sin of "intellectualism" but I am not sure what that is so I will not do so. For me the situation is very simple. When Pope Francis said "Who am I to judge?" regardless of any context or explanation the world at last took that as meaning that buggery was okay. When Biden says the Pope said he was a "Good Catholic" and told him to carry on receiving communion despite his promotion of abortion, the world at large took that to mean the Pope had no problem with those promoting abortion. In the absence of any protest by the Pope that he had been grossly misrepresented by Biden, which any honest man would have made, one can only assume that that is the Pope's position. That is to say that while personally one may not like abortion and speak out against it there is nothing wrong with promoting abortion.
Austen Ivereigh tells us that Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor was Pope Francis's kingmaker. I had lengthy dealings with Cormac and that was precisely his position: that he may have deplored abortion (although I cannot point to any occasion when he did so) he would do nothing to prevent abortions when he was in a position to do so and was quite prepared to sack anyone who thought they could do so. Is that not similar to the position of Pope Francis?
Another thing to consider is that Joe Biden is a liar. The Catholic League put out an email which covered some of Mr. Biden's lies in great detail. It is also hard to know how much of Biden's statement may have been wishful thinking, given his apparent cognitive decline. In other words, he may have imagined that the Pope told him that. I continue to struggle with Pope Francis. I have to remember that the Church is Christ's gift to us, and that we sometimes have to look past the current leadership. The pontificate of JPII and B16 got us accustomed to Popes who were faithful to the Magisterium.