America First doesn’t mean invading or otherwise seizing Greenland. I’m sitting out the midterms, as I’m not going to vote for any kind of warmongering.
No. I’ve voted in every other election. I will not vote for parties of war, parties that support murdering children in the womb, parties that dehumanize my neighbors. To hell, literally, with all of them.
I don’t do doomer bs, so pretty much everything you say here is stuff I don’t feel inclined to pay attention to. My trust is in the Lord, not people who need to get off the internet.
You realize when you post, you're on the internet. We clearly don't agree, but I don't want to silence you. I would hope you'd want the same for me. I'd like to believe we're all interested in a better world, starting with our own conduct.
There are other, smaller parties, which stand for the right things and could use your vote or write in someone worthy of the office. But if you don't vote you have only yourself to blame for not at least trying to stop them.
No, sitting out is not what got us to this point. What got us to this point is lack of faith in what God can do and lack of virtue (I include myself in that). Virtue and grace change society, not votes. Any time we rely more on politicians/elections to make change, we deny the power of God’s grace in our lives.
I agree about the power of virtue and grace, but that dynamic duo is clearly not in the White House right now. We can have and deserve moral leadership, and that requires voting.
I don’t think this will really get to the point where American forces will be firing on fellow NATO members, but I’m glad that Archbishop Broglio has made such a strong and unequivocal statement.
TACO is still the best bet. He did it again with Iran last week.
Not when they are no longer participating in combat and unable to mount an attack or defense: the wounded, those attempting to surrender, prisoners, and yes, survivors of shipwrecks. This is true even if those people were *previously* lawful combatants - so Archbishop Broglio's statement should be easy to assent to, regardless of one's position on whether boats off Venezuela constitute valid military targets (as opposed to civil legal targets) in the first place
This is absolutely insane; what a scandal. So every single servicemember is not culpable for a violation of just war doctrine? How dare this bishop bind them in this way. St Maurice and companions fought in Caesar’s legions but now every private must be a moral theologian?
Everyone cheering this on must take a step back and consider what this means for the 18 year old private. He must now assess his own commander-in-chiefs intent and hold his soul in the balance? Keep in mind that he has sworn an oath to obey the orders of the officers appointed over him.
What an absolute coward of a bishop. He’s so excited to have an opportunity to get an attaboy from the press that he is willing to throw all Catholic servicemembers under the bus.
Note that this has nothing to do with the morality of the Greenland actions. What, are the commanders supposed to subject their Catholic soldiers to loyalty tests now? This selfish bishop ought to be defrocked degraded for this.
The penalty for a soldier refusing orders in war is death. That is in UCMJ. The bishop is asking these soldiers to risk being hung at court martial so he can look good to the press. If literally anyone took what this bishop is saying seriously it would absolutely destroy these soldiers lives and maybe get them killed. Civilians wouldn’t think this way but this bishop ought to know these things - but he doesn’t care. Pathetic
Kevin- you look a bit unhinged buddy. Perhaps sit this one out with all due respect. If we look at what is happening with the USCCB statements and both the Bishops and Cardinals today it’s clear Pope Leo is done with all the MAGA hate. Nobody in Congress is stepping up- so us Catholics are stepping up. Would be nice if you joined us. Nothing to do with Keynesian vs Friedman economic policies, it’s about being a faithful human.
It's exactly the opposite. Archbishop Broglio is reminding service members of their freedom of conscience. I think this was a needed statement and am glad to see it.
Thank you Rebecca. It’s crazy to me that people still try to blame the “media” boogeyman when presented with facts not on far right websites. The Bishop is simply following Pope Leo’s lead. The US Cardinals made a similar statement earlier today. Glad Catholics have had it with all the racism, wars, and division in this country. Pope Leo is showing real Catholics the way. Many of us are on this path and it has nothing to do with political parties.
As a retired Army officer, I assure you that you are not correct in your assessment. The military has legal codes and regulations governing the use of lethal force. In no way do they say that they can attack allies, but are grounded in the Just War theory. Likewise, deliberately killing adversaries who are not capable of offensive capabilities (i.e., killing of survivors of an attack that has rendered them unable to fight) is a war crime. Abp. Broglio is merely repeating Catholic doctrine and highlighting the discontinuity of current US political thought with previous military doctrine.
To say that soldiers and sailors are supposed to obey orders without question is counter to the training they receive. Could they pay a price? Possibly. Could the chaplains, Catholic and otherwise, who say that certain orders are illegal? Most certainly. But they are obliged by their conscience and their faith to advise commanders of the implications of their orders.
I don’t know if it’s another Trump bloviation, but his personal morality, if it is not in continuity with Natural Law the Constitution, and with Just War doctrine, is not something that the military should follow.
I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and to obey the lawful orders of my superiors. That oath stands even in retirement. President Trump needs to emphasize the importance of moral action in the pursuit of his goals.
Given Broglio's words against the war, a real missed opportunity by Cupich et al. to not put out a statement with broader support that will be less likely to be dismissed as coming from a faction.
America First doesn’t mean invading or otherwise seizing Greenland. I’m sitting out the midterms, as I’m not going to vote for any kind of warmongering.
"Sitting out" might be what got us in this mess in the first place. Vote.
No. I’ve voted in every other election. I will not vote for parties of war, parties that support murdering children in the womb, parties that dehumanize my neighbors. To hell, literally, with all of them.
I get that. For now, you're free to make that decision.
I don’t do doomer bs, so pretty much everything you say here is stuff I don’t feel inclined to pay attention to. My trust is in the Lord, not people who need to get off the internet.
You realize when you post, you're on the internet. We clearly don't agree, but I don't want to silence you. I would hope you'd want the same for me. I'd like to believe we're all interested in a better world, starting with our own conduct.
There are other, smaller parties, which stand for the right things and could use your vote or write in someone worthy of the office. But if you don't vote you have only yourself to blame for not at least trying to stop them.
https://www.solidarity-party.org/
No, sitting out is not what got us to this point. What got us to this point is lack of faith in what God can do and lack of virtue (I include myself in that). Virtue and grace change society, not votes. Any time we rely more on politicians/elections to make change, we deny the power of God’s grace in our lives.
I agree about the power of virtue and grace, but that dynamic duo is clearly not in the White House right now. We can have and deserve moral leadership, and that requires voting.
I agree, but when the options are both morally reprehensible, I’d rather go with my conscience.
Why not run for office? https://www.solidarity-party.org/run-for-office
I don’t think this will really get to the point where American forces will be firing on fellow NATO members, but I’m glad that Archbishop Broglio has made such a strong and unequivocal statement.
TACO is still the best bet. He did it again with Iran last week.
Re drug boats: can’t shoot people literally invading your country?
Nope https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/what-the-law-says-about-killing-survivors-of-a-boat-strike-according-to-experts
Not when they are no longer participating in combat and unable to mount an attack or defense: the wounded, those attempting to surrender, prisoners, and yes, survivors of shipwrecks. This is true even if those people were *previously* lawful combatants - so Archbishop Broglio's statement should be easy to assent to, regardless of one's position on whether boats off Venezuela constitute valid military targets (as opposed to civil legal targets) in the first place
This is absolutely insane; what a scandal. So every single servicemember is not culpable for a violation of just war doctrine? How dare this bishop bind them in this way. St Maurice and companions fought in Caesar’s legions but now every private must be a moral theologian?
Everyone cheering this on must take a step back and consider what this means for the 18 year old private. He must now assess his own commander-in-chiefs intent and hold his soul in the balance? Keep in mind that he has sworn an oath to obey the orders of the officers appointed over him.
What an absolute coward of a bishop. He’s so excited to have an opportunity to get an attaboy from the press that he is willing to throw all Catholic servicemembers under the bus.
Note that this has nothing to do with the morality of the Greenland actions. What, are the commanders supposed to subject their Catholic soldiers to loyalty tests now? This selfish bishop ought to be defrocked degraded for this.
The penalty for a soldier refusing orders in war is death. That is in UCMJ. The bishop is asking these soldiers to risk being hung at court martial so he can look good to the press. If literally anyone took what this bishop is saying seriously it would absolutely destroy these soldiers lives and maybe get them killed. Civilians wouldn’t think this way but this bishop ought to know these things - but he doesn’t care. Pathetic
It is better to die with a clear conscience than live a compromised one. The martyrs show us this truth.
Kevin- you look a bit unhinged buddy. Perhaps sit this one out with all due respect. If we look at what is happening with the USCCB statements and both the Bishops and Cardinals today it’s clear Pope Leo is done with all the MAGA hate. Nobody in Congress is stepping up- so us Catholics are stepping up. Would be nice if you joined us. Nothing to do with Keynesian vs Friedman economic policies, it’s about being a faithful human.
Perhaps you should go back and read the history of the Nuremburg trials after WWII....
It's exactly the opposite. Archbishop Broglio is reminding service members of their freedom of conscience. I think this was a needed statement and am glad to see it.
Thank you Rebecca. It’s crazy to me that people still try to blame the “media” boogeyman when presented with facts not on far right websites. The Bishop is simply following Pope Leo’s lead. The US Cardinals made a similar statement earlier today. Glad Catholics have had it with all the racism, wars, and division in this country. Pope Leo is showing real Catholics the way. Many of us are on this path and it has nothing to do with political parties.
As a retired Army officer, I assure you that you are not correct in your assessment. The military has legal codes and regulations governing the use of lethal force. In no way do they say that they can attack allies, but are grounded in the Just War theory. Likewise, deliberately killing adversaries who are not capable of offensive capabilities (i.e., killing of survivors of an attack that has rendered them unable to fight) is a war crime. Abp. Broglio is merely repeating Catholic doctrine and highlighting the discontinuity of current US political thought with previous military doctrine.
To say that soldiers and sailors are supposed to obey orders without question is counter to the training they receive. Could they pay a price? Possibly. Could the chaplains, Catholic and otherwise, who say that certain orders are illegal? Most certainly. But they are obliged by their conscience and their faith to advise commanders of the implications of their orders.
I don’t know if it’s another Trump bloviation, but his personal morality, if it is not in continuity with Natural Law the Constitution, and with Just War doctrine, is not something that the military should follow.
I took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and to obey the lawful orders of my superiors. That oath stands even in retirement. President Trump needs to emphasize the importance of moral action in the pursuit of his goals.
Thank you for your service.
If you haven't read The Shadow of His Wings https://ignatius.com/the-shadow-of-his-wings-shwp/ it's a fascinating book.
You will like the part where he pulls a gun on... Well, I won't spoil it.
Given Broglio's words against the war, a real missed opportunity by Cupich et al. to not put out a statement with broader support that will be less likely to be dismissed as coming from a faction.