JD and Ed bring back a fan favorite to assess the canonical validity of the marriages of President Joe Biden. They talk about the surprising and savvy new 'Agatha Christie’ letter.
Then, they share in some Fourth of July tomfoolery.
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The Pillar Podcast Ep. 78 - The Bachelor?
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Since you commented on it:
It seems Robinette is the maiden name of Joe Biden's paternal grandmother.
Joe Biden Sr was given it has a middle name and he passed it on to our commander in chief Joe Biden Jr.
And now you know the rest of the story.
And the town of Joe’s first marriage is pronounced “skinny atlas”. Aren’t New York names fun?
Another classic podcast! Love it.
I want to hear more of JD’s thoughts on Moana and its Christology! Definitely the best Disney movie of the last decade.
Yeah I would be interested to hear- I liked Moana but I mean it’s explicitly pagan, isn’t it..?
“Shiny” is quite the scene and song.
Hey now…some members of Take That may not have been notable musicians (Wikipedia, for instance, describes two of them as “serving primarily as dancers”), but there was also Robbie Williams, who went on to become one of the biggest pop stars in the world.
(And not without reason—the man has considerable talents, whether or not one appreciates or approves of his body of work on aesthetic or moral grounds. And I should hope most anybody could derive enjoyment from his what-if-I-could-be-a-member-of-the-Rat-Pack album, “Swing While You’re Winning”.)
Is it possible that they could've later had the union convalidated?
Well I had to clutch my pearls for a minute when Ed was seeming to praise the work of Andrew Lloyd Webber (but indeed he was merely speaking of cultural reach…?) but either way they know their fans and this Saint Paulite was thoroughly delighted by this weeks conversation and all its belaboring. I hadn’t heard about the Agatha Christie letter (or it’s modern equivalent) before- very interesting! I do think it is at least clear that there is a non-minuscule portion of westerners of all stripes truly lamenting the loss of any and all tradition amidst the maelstrom of modernity, and who see the Catholic Church as one of the few remaining institutions that might hold onto it. It sounds a little treacherous to say so on this 4th of July (God Bless America!), but I think the British monarchy is another, which is why so many people, even non-Brits, are entranced by things like the recent royal coronation (notably also a religious ceremony). Whatever people’s politics or beliefs, it is sad for many to see every beautiful tie to the past severed. And as to the first half of the show: there have been many reminders to me this past week that I need to up my prayers for our President and for any future leaders of our country..,And so I shall! Happy Independence Day, friends!
I come from Kentucky where many of the Catholics were English. Fields, for example. In the early days of this country Maryland was founded by Catholics who wished to escape the anti-Catholic laws of England. Pennsylvania was the other state which allowed practicing English Catholics to live there. So I wouldn't say Stevenson was necessarily Protestant.
Surprised that there was no “Don’t Cry for Me Argentina”/ Evita discussion regarding ALW and Pope Francis!
Fun program. Thank you. I do need to clarify a point: the Philippines celebrates its Independence Day on June 12, in commemoration of having declared itself independent from Spain on that day in 1898, with an established government and constitution. After the United States took over, the Philippines lost that independence and regained it, from the United States on July 4, 1946. Today July 4 is celebrated as Philippine-American Friendship Day. Again, thanks.
“Out west, whiskey is for drinking and water is for fighting over.” Mark Twain
I came here for the UN chapel photo!
Ed is so wrong about the cultural influence of Lin Manuel Miranda. His work, like it or not, is so widely culturally known.
Yeah, so so wrong.
He's big enough to have attracted all manner of backlash from jealousy and overexposure. That's a major marker of influence right there.
I think a lot of "Eucharistic problems" could be solved by focusing on marriage. We need to make a stronger emphasis on the importance of valid marriages when it comes to co-habiting, same sex relationships, gender confusion, etc. I think we'll see that controversies surrounding abortion will take care of themselves.
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2023/01/27/some-questions-about-the-bidens-1977-catholic-wedding/ article from last year about this
Ed, I lived in Britain for a few years. They DO eat corn there…. on pizza!
Also, when your combo pizza including sweet corn arrives, they may look at you funny if you just grab a slice with your hands, rather than eating it with knife and fork like the rest of the folks in the restaurant.
(Or at least that was my experience in Scotland, over a quarter-century ago now.)
Ha! Yes!
I would highly encourage Mr. Condon to listen to Vladimir Horowitz’s rendition of The Stars and Stripes Forever. It will change your perspective on it as a piece of music. I listen to it every Independence Day - both the composition and the story of its origin inspire patriotic fervor in my heart without fail.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TxO9k53IsMU
I heard some say, and I believe it yo be true, that Sir James MacMillan was the one to organize the letter.
I think Damian Thompson said this on twitter, and it seems like the kind of thing he would know about.
Lin-Manuel ≠ Lloyd Webber at all haha. The latter has written a choral mass in the EF tradition. Granted, it’s not very good, but he is on the level of composers that have tried it and has a personal stake in the Latin mass
Could Jill have received a so called "internal forum annulment"? Seems like a very 1970's thing to do.
If she did, it wasn't valid in any way...
I am aggrieved at Ed.’s lack of enthusiasm for John Phillip Souza and Charles Ingalls. At least we have common perspective on glow sticks. This was a fascinating episode.
So I have a few thoughts on the discussion of the validity of the Bidens' marriage. Three points were discussed:
1) Was Jill Jacobs validly baptized?
2) Was Jill Jacobs validly married to Bill Stevenson?
3) Were Sen Biden and Jill Stevenson validly married?
First, I think it is safe to assume that Jill Jacobs was validly baptized because she was confirmed in the PCUSA congregation Abington Presbyterian. As far as I can tell Presbyterians required and still require baptism to be performed before a confirmation. Specific evidence of this is difficult to find since confirmation is not a sacrament in the PCUSA and the PCUSA's congregational polity makes it difficult to establish denomination-wide operational tenets. All this to say is that Jill Jacobs was baptized at some point. Now, finding evidence to verify this claim? That may be a different story, but I digress.
Second, assuming that Jill Jacobs and Bill Stevenson were both validly baptized, we may be able to assume that their marriage was valid. Of course, establishing records and determining facts would still be required to say so one way or the other.
Thirdly, and here is where I think Messrs. Condon and Flynn missed a great opportunity to discuss the laity's obligations to the Law, Sen Biden and Jill Stevenson had a Catholic priest (at least according to Wikipedia, a Jesuit priest) officiate their attempted marriage. A dispensation from form and permission to enter into mixed marriage are not terribly difficult things to obtain (my own parents did). The more interesting part here, as I see it, is not necessarily if Jill Stevenson was free to marry Sen Biden, it is what was their officiant's reaction to their attempted marriage?
This priest had to have had one of three dispositions to the marriage:
1) He performed his due diligence to the Law and the couple ensuring that they were both free to marry and proper permissions and dispensations were obtained. If so, we should assume the validity of the marriage.
2) He neglected his due diligence to either the couples' freedom to marry and/or obtaining the proper permissions and dispensations. If so, the validity of the marriage is unknown.
3) He was apathetic and/or ignorant of the need to establish freedom to marry and obtain proper permissions and dispensations. If so, the validity of the marriage is unknown.
Here is where I think the discussion could have gone: Biden and Stevenson presented themselves to a priest to be married and therefore assumed their marriage was valid. What obligations did they -- and the laity at large -- have to ensuring canonical form and norms are followed? Think back to the "we baptize" scandal of 2020 (https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/after-we-baptize-scandal-have-we?utm_source=%2Fsearch%2Ffr%2520matthew%2520hood%2520detroit%2520we%2520baptize&utm_medium=reader2). Had there not been video proof of Fr Matthew Hood's errant baptism, he and the faithful would have been left to assume that he had been baptized and therefore all his subsequent sacramental acts -- including his ordination -- were valid. The deference shown to clerics in the administration of sacraments is a common posture for the laity. It is akin to not questioning one's accountant when filing taxes since the accountant is the expert.
What this whole episode asks is massive: How do we trust our clerics to actually dispense God's graces to us through the sacraments?
The Eucharistic coherence angle on this conversation was interesting—but I think it's obvious that raising the marriage-validity issue would not have resolved anything. Cmon guys, have you not "received" Amoris Laetitia?
Very late to the party on this one, but Agatha Christie is also connected to the other featured topic of the podcast! Apparently she refrained from taking communion after her divorce from Archie Christie. She's one of my favorite people ever; I wish we could have been friends!
A little late to the party as well on this, as I am just now catching up on podcasts after a trip to Rome earlier this month. One point of clarification regarding the discussion of whether mixed marriage is an invalidating impediment. When you went to the code to confirm this, you went to the wrong code. Joe and Jill attempted marriage in 1977, and you went to the 1983 code. The code in effect at the time of attempted marriage was the 1917 code, and under that code, mixed religion was also an invalidating impediment (CIC 17 cc 1060-1064). This was changed in the 1983 code to only require permission and no longer an invalidating impediment. So unless Jill Stevenson (née Jacobs) was baptized Catholic (which isn't apparent in the facts presented), her protestant baptismal status would have been irrelevant. They would have needed a dispensation from disparity of cult and/or mixed religion.