JD and Ed talk about Pope Leo XIV’s in-flight press conference this week. Then, JD talks about a new database system being tested in dioceses in Brazil.
I haven't finished the episode yet, but a friend of mine calls clerics in civvies "incog-priest-o." It rolls off the tongue better than it looks in typed out, I promise.
Is there a canonical requirement about who is to be informed when a priest takes a leave of absence (either by choice or by requirement)? In my experience, only a parish where the priest last was assigned might be told that he's taking a leave of absence for some vague generalised reason, and the priests of the diocese are told that he no longer has faculties. In the cases where a priest leaves the priesthood (i.e. to join the clergy of a different ecclesiastical community, and/or to get married), even then, I have not seen there be public announcements of "this man is no longer a priest in good standing" or some such different language. So I'm curious how the situation is now *supposed* to be, as opposed to what Brazil intends to try?
Also, I'm with Ed about not liking centralised databases, but a key reason for me is that the more you try to organise data, the more chaotic you're making things 🤣
I think that something like the digital celebret is absolutely inevitable - it is just a question of time. What we are doing is absolutely insane and unsustainable, but the same could be said for so much of the way we run the Church in the US. Presuming the advance and not the (entirely possible) collapse of our current technologicalization, something like this will certainly happen because everything will be online only and we will have to find a way for that to work with liability. The data might, for instance, live in localities but be able to be instantly transmitted when needed, which would be an instantaneous and digital version of what is already done. But likely this will take place only once we have definitively left christendom behind and become Benedict XVI's small apostolic Church of the future.
The problem with centralized computerized systems is that while the source may be secure, the systems used to access the information are much less likely to be so.
I am happy to inform you that, if one knows where to go, one may obtain Pope Face Fabric in a variety of African countries even without the special occasion of a papal visit!
(Yes, this is part of my ongoing campaign to convince you to have the next full time Pillar correspondent based in Africa. They could bring suitcases of this stuff to the next live show!)
Good episode. Thank you both for sharing your perspectives on the Pope's off-the-cuff response to a a press member's question. I appreciate how one of you guys (I don't know whose voice is whose) said something to the effect of, "Cut the guy some slack, he's speaking off the cuff."
It's obvious but it's an important reminder. Prepared communications need to be weighed and understood in a very different manner than when people are talking extemporaneously.
Which is why it was so concerning when I read the Pillar article entitled "Charlotte seminary changes prompt objections, ‘Martin fatigue’" by Michelle la Rosa (https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/charlotte-seminary-changes-prompt), where the Pillar actively encouraged priests to break their ordination promises.
In that article, the Pillar celebrated priests who anonymously attacked their bishop. The Pillar shared that these anonymous men called their bishop, in a public manner and behind his back, an "autocrat," a "bully," and someone who "has a reputation for berating his priests". There are plenty of other disgraceful and cowardly comments in that Pillar article that don't need to be highlighted here. This is the clerical equivalent of venting about your real wife to your work wife, and then encouraging your work wife to chatter about it on social media. It's shameful and I'm disappointed that that article was published (and not just referred to in offhand, unprepared podcast remarks) by the Pillar.
In the ritual for ordaining priests, the chosen men are asked a series of questions. While kneeling before the bishop, the man to be ordained makes a profound gesture of filial piety as he places his joined hands between those of his bishop. Then, the man to be ordained is asked by the bishop himself: "Do you promise respect and obedience to me and my successors?" It seems that someone mailed a very special copy of the ritual to the Pillar, where the promise instead reads, "Do you promise respect and obedience to me and my successors, so long as you like my decisions and think I exercise good leadership?"
The Pillar is the best Catholic news source by a *long*shot, imo. A major reason for that (aside from your thoroughness) is the entire Pillar staff's faithfulness to the Church and her beliefs. Which is normally spot-on! But if you want good priests and good bishops, then start by encouraging them to act like the fathers they are called to be - not by taking it upon yourself to air clerical issues which should be addressed between a spiritual father and his spiritual sons.
Isn't that backhanded gossip the kind of attitude that Pope Francis called out circa May / June of 2024?
imo Leo’s remarks are best understood as: ‘The priority of the Church is out here doing serious work, not endlessly playing around in the sandbox of sexuality. These questions have been asked, Rome has answered, and Church is moving on now.’
"You can be as blunt and bold and stark as you can possibly be in in your language. In which case you have soundbited yourself and it will be a soundbite that will go around the world like a gunshot and you have dialed the volume up on whatever the issue is to eleven and it's very very hard to bring it back down from there..."
-Why not just make the ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
Currently on vacation with two Hawaiian shirts packed: I feel seen!
On the last topic of Celebrets/Letters of Suitability/Good Standing: agreed that it is a burden and pain in the butt. I typically request at least one a month. When I'm going on a trip or have a wedding planned, I have plenty of time to submit my request and send a copy ahead to the parish, etc. However the biggest difficulty is for short notice things like a funeral. Some dioceses (or at least their priests) are also extremely scrupulous or anxious about these letters. I was once turned away from concelebrating a Mass while visiting home because I had not included that specific parish church on my letter.
I don't know what the best solution is and I doubt a central data system will solve these problems. And I am willing to put up with the frustration for the sake of accountability. But it certainly is not a fantastic system.
((clears throat)) as a woman of Cuban descent whose father wears guayaberas and whose sons also wear them as their summer mass shirt - no. they are not the same as a Hawaiian shirt. sure they both have buttons. and that's about it lol. in terms of history and purposeful fashion, they have nothing in common!
I haven't finished the episode yet, but a friend of mine calls clerics in civvies "incog-priest-o." It rolls off the tongue better than it looks in typed out, I promise.
nice!
Is there a canonical requirement about who is to be informed when a priest takes a leave of absence (either by choice or by requirement)? In my experience, only a parish where the priest last was assigned might be told that he's taking a leave of absence for some vague generalised reason, and the priests of the diocese are told that he no longer has faculties. In the cases where a priest leaves the priesthood (i.e. to join the clergy of a different ecclesiastical community, and/or to get married), even then, I have not seen there be public announcements of "this man is no longer a priest in good standing" or some such different language. So I'm curious how the situation is now *supposed* to be, as opposed to what Brazil intends to try?
Also, I'm with Ed about not liking centralised databases, but a key reason for me is that the more you try to organise data, the more chaotic you're making things 🤣
I think that something like the digital celebret is absolutely inevitable - it is just a question of time. What we are doing is absolutely insane and unsustainable, but the same could be said for so much of the way we run the Church in the US. Presuming the advance and not the (entirely possible) collapse of our current technologicalization, something like this will certainly happen because everything will be online only and we will have to find a way for that to work with liability. The data might, for instance, live in localities but be able to be instantly transmitted when needed, which would be an instantaneous and digital version of what is already done. But likely this will take place only once we have definitively left christendom behind and become Benedict XVI's small apostolic Church of the future.
More like England breaking with Rome.
The problem with centralized computerized systems is that while the source may be secure, the systems used to access the information are much less likely to be so.
I am happy to inform you that, if one knows where to go, one may obtain Pope Face Fabric in a variety of African countries even without the special occasion of a papal visit!
(Yes, this is part of my ongoing campaign to convince you to have the next full time Pillar correspondent based in Africa. They could bring suitcases of this stuff to the next live show!)
Good episode. Thank you both for sharing your perspectives on the Pope's off-the-cuff response to a a press member's question. I appreciate how one of you guys (I don't know whose voice is whose) said something to the effect of, "Cut the guy some slack, he's speaking off the cuff."
It's obvious but it's an important reminder. Prepared communications need to be weighed and understood in a very different manner than when people are talking extemporaneously.
Which is why it was so concerning when I read the Pillar article entitled "Charlotte seminary changes prompt objections, ‘Martin fatigue’" by Michelle la Rosa (https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/charlotte-seminary-changes-prompt), where the Pillar actively encouraged priests to break their ordination promises.
In that article, the Pillar celebrated priests who anonymously attacked their bishop. The Pillar shared that these anonymous men called their bishop, in a public manner and behind his back, an "autocrat," a "bully," and someone who "has a reputation for berating his priests". There are plenty of other disgraceful and cowardly comments in that Pillar article that don't need to be highlighted here. This is the clerical equivalent of venting about your real wife to your work wife, and then encouraging your work wife to chatter about it on social media. It's shameful and I'm disappointed that that article was published (and not just referred to in offhand, unprepared podcast remarks) by the Pillar.
In the ritual for ordaining priests, the chosen men are asked a series of questions. While kneeling before the bishop, the man to be ordained makes a profound gesture of filial piety as he places his joined hands between those of his bishop. Then, the man to be ordained is asked by the bishop himself: "Do you promise respect and obedience to me and my successors?" It seems that someone mailed a very special copy of the ritual to the Pillar, where the promise instead reads, "Do you promise respect and obedience to me and my successors, so long as you like my decisions and think I exercise good leadership?"
The Pillar is the best Catholic news source by a *long*shot, imo. A major reason for that (aside from your thoroughness) is the entire Pillar staff's faithfulness to the Church and her beliefs. Which is normally spot-on! But if you want good priests and good bishops, then start by encouraging them to act like the fathers they are called to be - not by taking it upon yourself to air clerical issues which should be addressed between a spiritual father and his spiritual sons.
Isn't that backhanded gossip the kind of attitude that Pope Francis called out circa May / June of 2024?
Peace & blessings,
Fr Grant Sennott
Pensacola, FL
imo Leo’s remarks are best understood as: ‘The priority of the Church is out here doing serious work, not endlessly playing around in the sandbox of sexuality. These questions have been asked, Rome has answered, and Church is moving on now.’
Wait, did I hear that correctly, that Edgar is going to be on the plane with the Pope on the trip to Spain? I can't wait to read that article!
36:33
"You can be as blunt and bold and stark as you can possibly be in in your language. In which case you have soundbited yourself and it will be a soundbite that will go around the world like a gunshot and you have dialed the volume up on whatever the issue is to eleven and it's very very hard to bring it back down from there..."
-Why not just make the ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
because then we couldn't have made a "Spinal Tap" reference.
Currently on vacation with two Hawaiian shirts packed: I feel seen!
On the last topic of Celebrets/Letters of Suitability/Good Standing: agreed that it is a burden and pain in the butt. I typically request at least one a month. When I'm going on a trip or have a wedding planned, I have plenty of time to submit my request and send a copy ahead to the parish, etc. However the biggest difficulty is for short notice things like a funeral. Some dioceses (or at least their priests) are also extremely scrupulous or anxious about these letters. I was once turned away from concelebrating a Mass while visiting home because I had not included that specific parish church on my letter.
I don't know what the best solution is and I doubt a central data system will solve these problems. And I am willing to put up with the frustration for the sake of accountability. But it certainly is not a fantastic system.
((clears throat)) as a woman of Cuban descent whose father wears guayaberas and whose sons also wear them as their summer mass shirt - no. they are not the same as a Hawaiian shirt. sure they both have buttons. and that's about it lol. in terms of history and purposeful fashion, they have nothing in common!