‘Out of the banality’ - Cordileone on liturgical reform

Will the Leonine papacy mean renewal for Catholic liturgy?

The election of Pope Leo XIV has fueled speculation among some Catholics, who are hopeful for a change to the 2021 restrictions on pre-conciliar liturgical rites, which were introduced in the motu proprio Traditionis custodes.

An altar set for the celebration of the Mass according to the Extraordinary Form. Credit: Diocese of Savannah/YouTube

Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone of San Francisco is among those who are hopeful.

Just a few days before Leo was elected, Cordileone penned an essay calling for “an end to the liturgy wars.”

In the essay, the archbishop stressed that “now is an opportune time to revive Pope Benedict XVI’s vision” for the liturgy, by “permitting the free use of the pre-conciliar Roman Missal, thereby allowing [the] two expressions of the same Latin Rite to influence each other in a way that would be ‘mutually enriching’.”

Cordileone spoke with The Pillar May 15 about his hopes for liturgical renewal in the pontificate of Pope Leo XIV.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone. Courtesy photo.

The Church is facing many challenges today – from religious freedom to immigration to clerical abuse.

Why do you think talking about liturgy is important in the life of the Church right now?

The liturgy shapes who we are. We need to be right with God, if we're going to get anything else right. We have to be sure our liturgy truly is an experience of the sacred that can lift our souls and our minds to God. Being in right relationship with God, we can bring that into the world and properly address all these many issues that we're facing.

Critics of older liturgical forms sometimes argue that they are too outdated to appeal to young people.

But it seems that young people are precisely the Catholics heading to the Extraordinary Form in large numbers. Why do you think that is?

There's so much chaos in the world. Everything seems to be changing all the time. I think they want to find something that can anchor them, that is of lasting value, that's truly beautiful and sacred, that will lift them out of the banality and mayhem in the world right now.

But there's also another factor. It's kind of similar, I suppose, but it seems young people are always attracted to the esoteric. I remember back in the 1970s, there was a growing interest among young people in Eastern religions. I think there's already an inclination of young people for seeking out something that's different, maybe more adventurous.

But here, what's deeply in our Catholic tradition is something that can anchor them in what is timeless and is truly of the holy and of the sacred. And maybe if they experienced more of that Sunday-to-Sunday in their parishes, there would not be as much of an attraction, but it would still be there.

So to people who are critical of the Latin Mass, I would say, get to know it first. Don't criticize what you don't know. Experience it, learn it, seek to understand it, and then you're in a position to critique.

Do you think there need to be efforts within dioceses to help people better understand liturgical rites and symbolism, generally speaking?

Absolutely. And that was a problem before Vatican II, too. Even a lot of priests didn't understand many of the gestures and rites in the Mass, and I suppose that's why it was so easy to change them.

But everything has a purpose behind it, and we need to educate people on that so we can recover more of that symbolism and sacramental sensitivity.

Are you hopeful that the election of Pope Leo XIV will lead to a renewed focus on reverence and beauty in the liturgy?

Yes, I am. I think he will lead by example especially. He wants to be a bridge builder - that was very clear from when he first stepped out on the loggia of St. Peter’s Basilica. I think he will be someone who could end the liturgy wars.

Let's be united.

We had attained that under Pope Benedict. Then there seemed to be a new war on the traditional Mass that ended up being divisive and with a lot of bitterness. So I am sensing that we can recoup the sense of living together.

We do have, to be frank, different styles of worship in the Catholic Church now, but as long as we’re following the liturgical norms, I think we can have a greater sense of unity if we respect each other and how we worship.

What, concretely, are you hoping for? Do you think the Holy See would simply reverse the regulations imposed by Traditionis custodes? Is there some other approach?

Ultimately, I think it needs to be left as the decision of the bishop in his diocese.

But I think the vision has to be set whereby the traditional Mass is easily available for those who want it. I would hope that we can come to the time when both forms of the Mass are the ordinary experience of everyday Catholics, and they're just as comfortable in either form of the Mass.

Then eventually we will know how to organically move toward one form of the Mass for all Catholics, which will probably have a little bit more variety within it, since that's how we've been living for the last 60 years. How can we incorporate things that were already happening before the [Second Vatican Council] — the active participation of the people, for example, that people can sing those parts of the Mass?

I think it was Pope Benedict's vision that we need to eventually get back to having one form. But the way to do it is not to make a committee sit down and pick and choose from each form to come up with a convergence form. It can only come about when people know and understand and worship in both forms.

I think by having them both as the experience of Catholics who go to church, we will be able to come up with a healthy resolution to what is now this kind of bifurcated style of worship.

Many traditionalist communities said they felt betrayed by Traditionis custodes. Some people in those communities say they feel disillusionment and distrust toward the Vatican and Church leaders.

What, if anything, do you think could be done to help heal some of those wounds?

Well, I think some bishops had some concerns as well, given the limits on their own rightful authority in their own diocese. I think what should be done is to promote the vision that Benedict gave us and allow bishops in their diocese to discern and decide for their diocese.

And I think with that, over time, there will be some healing. I think as long as the Mass is easily accessible for people who want to access it, and they're not sequestered off as kind of bad Catholics or people who are not totally with the Church, or people who think they're superior to others, I think that would be helpful to healing.

And also they themselves have to not portray that attitude. When people who love the traditional Mass ask me what they can do to promote this, I say, open up a diner for people on the street, work at a homeless shelter, support a crisis pregnancy clinic. Put your faith into action to show that you're an integrated Catholic.

The worship has to be right, that's number one. But it's not to be left there. It has to be lived out in our everyday circumstances. I think many of them are good at living it out in their personal vocation and life - people who are married, they're faithful, they have lots of children, they're bringing their children up in the faith. So that's number one. But also to live it out in terms of service to the poor and the needy. It's going to build up unity in the Church.

When Traditionis custodes was promulgated, the reason given was that some of these traditional Mass communities were becoming too insular, and there was a tendency within them to reject Vatican II.

The same reasoning was given to justify the additional restrictions that followed from the Dicastery for Divine Worship.

Do you think those concerns are justified? If so, how do you think they should be addressed without suppressing the Latin Mass?

I suppose there are some people like that, but the experience of most of us in the United States is not that. Most people who attend the traditional Mass, if they're going to a community that's in communion with the See of Rome, they accept the validity of Vatican II.

The problem is now they're being sequestered off, being told they cannot even have their Mass in a parish church - another restriction that came from the dicastery.

A parish should be allowed to have a traditional Mass, as part of the Mass schedule that can be published in the bulletin, so it's integrated. The more we do that, the less we're going to fuel this sense of resentment and separation.

The traditional Mass is not an ecclesial movement like the Neocatechumenal Way, the Catholic Family Movement, Marriage Encounter etc. But it does have the characteristics of a movement. These ecclesial movements have the potential of renewing and revitalizing the Church if they're kept in communion with the Church. The Church leadership has to pastor them in a way that keeps them in communion.

Movements have this tendency to easily kind of move away and see themselves as the only real Catholics. So the authority needs to properly guide and direct them. These movements need direction, not just to be left on their own, but also not to be restricted. That’s what I think we need to do with the traditional Mass. We need to bring them into a greater sense of communion.

And maybe there do need to be some restrictions or some guidance, to make sure that it's not going off to be a parallel church. But the solution is not to sequester them off.