Soooo…since they didn’t have the apostolic mandate and the notary gave some nonsense answer, does that mean they didn’t follow the rubrics of the liturgy? Sounds like some “Spirit of Vatican II” liturgical funny-business to me ;).
The Orthodox churches survived because they actually had roots. SSPX (and Old Catholic, Independent Catholic, PNCC, etc.) are seeds thrown on rocky soil.
I have a hope that Pope Leo will use this as an opportunity for inflection and reflection on the liturgy and any doctrinal questions that have cropped up in the last 80 years. JPII had too much upheaval to manage; Benedict started movement in the right direction; Francis, likely by accident, lit a fire that moved people to talk more about these things.
Yes! the irony of being more 'modernist' by claiming a deeper tradition is not lost on me either. It's only the hyper modern that can be so revisionist!
Hubris. Prideful to the extreme. Pure and simple, this openly says “we know better and are holier than you are so we’ll do what WE want no matter what the successor to St Peter or Catholic teaching says” and it makes me feel terribly sad. May God have mercy on them and bring them to repentance and reconciliation.
I feel like the past few years - not just with liturgy but that has been a way it's shown up - God has been teaching me a lot about the value of obedience, not only to his perfect authority, but also to legitimate authority that maybe does things I just don't like, and also even maybe kind of dumb things. I can think those things are dumb, but I can still submit in patience and humility and that obedience will yield good fruit if I let it, instead of hanging on in a desperate attempt to save face (which is a temptation I definitely understand!)
That's just me, not this huge movement taking on responsibility for thousands of souls, but I can't help but think about the parallels watching this whole thing unfold.
The root of every single sin is the personal contention that "this commandment/law does not apply to me because the extraordinary contributions I make to Christianity." True through all time, Henry VIII needed an heir, Luther disliked certain practices, the SSPX does not like anything since 1962 (or 1955 depending on who you ask).
Pride is the root of all evil and no good intention, no matter how noble one thinks it is will justify a sinful means to accomplish it. They all promised obedience to the Church. They disobeyed in the most flagrant manner possible with several thousand witnesses.
Contrary to the faith? They can go eff themselves.
I am shocked - shocked! - the SPX would do this.
“The pope wouldn’t meet with us fast enough, so we are the Eastern Orthodox with Latin now” is a heck of a leap.
Soooo…since they didn’t have the apostolic mandate and the notary gave some nonsense answer, does that mean they didn’t follow the rubrics of the liturgy? Sounds like some “Spirit of Vatican II” liturgical funny-business to me ;).
The Orthodox churches survived because they actually had roots. SSPX (and Old Catholic, Independent Catholic, PNCC, etc.) are seeds thrown on rocky soil.
I have a hope that Pope Leo will use this as an opportunity for inflection and reflection on the liturgy and any doctrinal questions that have cropped up in the last 80 years. JPII had too much upheaval to manage; Benedict started movement in the right direction; Francis, likely by accident, lit a fire that moved people to talk more about these things.
Yes! the irony of being more 'modernist' by claiming a deeper tradition is not lost on me either. It's only the hyper modern that can be so revisionist!
Hubris. Prideful to the extreme. Pure and simple, this openly says “we know better and are holier than you are so we’ll do what WE want no matter what the successor to St Peter or Catholic teaching says” and it makes me feel terribly sad. May God have mercy on them and bring them to repentance and reconciliation.
I feel like the past few years - not just with liturgy but that has been a way it's shown up - God has been teaching me a lot about the value of obedience, not only to his perfect authority, but also to legitimate authority that maybe does things I just don't like, and also even maybe kind of dumb things. I can think those things are dumb, but I can still submit in patience and humility and that obedience will yield good fruit if I let it, instead of hanging on in a desperate attempt to save face (which is a temptation I definitely understand!)
That's just me, not this huge movement taking on responsibility for thousands of souls, but I can't help but think about the parallels watching this whole thing unfold.
Well, when they openly reject the council even in the rite of ordination itself, what else can one do or say? A sad day for the Church.
The root of every single sin is the personal contention that "this commandment/law does not apply to me because the extraordinary contributions I make to Christianity." True through all time, Henry VIII needed an heir, Luther disliked certain practices, the SSPX does not like anything since 1962 (or 1955 depending on who you ask).
Pride is the root of all evil and no good intention, no matter how noble one thinks it is will justify a sinful means to accomplish it. They all promised obedience to the Church. They disobeyed in the most flagrant manner possible with several thousand witnesses.