Bishop Rougé: ‘The Church does not progress by revolution’

"We have to find new means to encounter people, to share our faith with them in a spirit of dialogue."

France is a contradiction: one of the most traditionally Catholic countries in the world, and one of the most secularized societies in Europe. 

Bishop Matthieu Rougé. Credit: Diocese of Nanterre.

A barrage of progressive legislation has passed in the last few years, including making abortion a constitutional right—the first country in the world to do so. Religious practice is at historical lows and most Catholic dioceses in the country don’t have many vocations to priesthood.

Some French Catholics see signs of hope: the country has record numbers of adult baptisms this year, and it is home to a number of dynamic evangelization initiatives.

Among those hopeful for the future is Bishop Matthieu Rougé of the French Diocese of Nanterre.

Nanterre, a city 11 miles west of Paris, is home to almost one million Catholics, and also to a significant Muslim minority.

Rougé was ordained a priest in 1994 in Paris by Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustigier, whom he served as secretary from 2000 to 2003. From 2004 to 2012, Rougé went on to serve as the unofficial chaplain of the French parliament. He became Bishop of Nanterre in 2018 and was chosen as one of the delegates of the French Bishops’ Conference to the closing sessions of the synod on synodality this month.

While in Rome, Rougé spoke with The Pillar about the synod on synodality, secularization, and the challenges of evangelization in France. 

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Bishop Matthieu Rougé (Courtesy: Diocese of Nanterre)

What has been your experience in the synod? Many delegates have said the discussions in the second session have been more technical than the first, do you think it was worth having such a long process?

The experience was quite positive. Being back with the same delegates made for deeper relationships, and enabled us to get to the heart of the issues. Last year, people arrived with some fears, with some hopes, maybe with some agendas.

But finally we all went through a real spiritual and ecclesial experience. So something deep had gone on and we were very happy to meet again. This year we arrived knowing each other and understanding the method better, so we could move forward faster, deeper, with fewer complications and more freedom. 

Last year, we talked about maybe every topic possible. This year, the reflection was more centered on decision-making in the Church. It was about finding structures so all of the baptized could better participate in mission and in decision-making.

The outcome of this long process may seem disappointing to some. What everyone has to discover is that the Church does not progress by revolution, but by deepening. It's not easy to discover this. And some of us in the synod discovered it through experience. 

We have to share this experience – that the Church progresses through deepening – with the people who haven’t seen it. It is important to discover that we are not a worldly institution, but we are in the world. We follow a different logic, we don’t follow a political logic. We follow an ecclesial and spiritual logic. This will be difficult to understand for some. 

But one of the responsibilities of those who have participated in the synod is to explain that. 

France is an increasingly diverse country, and your diocese is a reflection of that diversity. You have some of the richest and poorest neighborhoods in the country in your diocese and migrants from dozens of different countries. 

Do you see this diversity as a richness? Can the synod help you in some way to this end?

The sociological and religious diversity of my diocese is a reality. It is in this reality that we are called to be missionaries. In many parishes, the presence of many faithful coming from Africa and French West Indies brings great warmth and fervor.

Some parties in France have called for greater restrictions on Muslim migration and use what some call ‘Islamophobic’ rhetoric, while some Muslim communities have been at the forefront of protests which many call antisemitic.  

How can the Church deal with these tensions? How does interreligious dialogue with the Muslim communities work in France?

Of course, we have to be artisans of fraternity. In the summer of 2023, violence broke out in Nanterre, following the death of a young Muslim during an altercation with the police. The boy had been arrested by the police with a stolen car and in the altercation, the police shot him, which immediately started riots in Nanterre, which spread to other cities in the diocese and around France.

The riots didn’t last long, maybe a week, but at the beginning, we didn't know what would happen. So, at that moment I thought I had to do something. I proposed a text to the Muslim leaders calling for peace and thanks to our regular dialogue, they agreed. We published this text, which was later sent to the president of the bishops’ conference, who discussed it with the Muslim and Jewish communities and the document was relayed nationwide.

I don't know how much this helped, but it came after some very difficult days. This kind of dialogue helped to bring peace again. Regardless of the political issue of migration, we must work to welcome all who need to be welcomed and promote peace.

Islam is the second-largest religion in France and, according to some studies, the most practiced one. How should the Catholic Church approach that reality?

Some Catholics would answer: first through dialogue; others: first through evangelization. We know, especially since John Paul II's encyclical Redemptoris Missio, that we must practice both dialogue and proclamation. Some Christians have the temptation to be exclusively involved in dialogue and some in just immediate evangelization. 

Our job is to show that indeed both go together in evangelization. You have to know someone to dialogue with them, to open up faithfully. 

But if you really want to be open with them, you also have to share your faith. Every year, Muslims ask to be baptized. We must accompany them with particular care.

Secularization is also growing in France and with it the passage of ‘progressive’ legislation, such as turning abortion into a constitutional right or the proposal to legalize euthanasia. 

How can the Church be a voice for common sense when no one seems to want to hear it?

We must never tire of proclaiming the good news of human dignity. Even if it's not easy, it's possible to do so in the secular and even relatively hostile media. 

The big debate today in France is the question of euthanasia. The Church's position is shared by many doctors, by all religions, and by a significant number of non-believing intellectuals. 

The pressure of liberalism in ethics is very strong, but this should not discourage us. Pope Francis' vigorous statements in this area are a strong encouragement.

We can dialogue with authorities without fooling ourselves. But we have to take every occasion of dialogue seriously. Dialogue is possible and can be fruitful in many topics. We have to push our case as far as we can in every opportunity of dialogue, firmly and without fear.

Jesus died on the cross, so it is not surprising that some of our essential values contradict the times, but we must continue.

Has laïcité made the Church increasingly irrelevant in the eyes of the French? 

What can the Church do to regain its social relevance?

Our laïcité could, in fact, lead to our social marginalization. But, at the same time, the institutional fragility of the Church in France is a source of freedom and an incentive to action. We cannot rely on automatic recognition and funding. 

Despite the many difficulties we face, it seems to me that this situation is in the end some sort of opportunity.

It’s an opportunity. The Church in France is quite poor in financial means and legal institutions. We have to be creative to survive. Other churches might be richer and have more institutions, but sometimes they have less active Christians. 

In many things, our secularity makes things difficult, but, altogether, it also gives us freedom and is also a call for involvement. 

Despite all this, France had a record number of adult baptisms on Easter this year. How do you think this happened?

The significant growth in adult and teenage baptisms over the past few years is good news indeed. In part, this is a “catch-up” of baptisms that would previously have been celebrated in infancy. 

But some catechumens come from other religions or have no religious background. 

This is a sign of the religious thirst of our contemporaries, struggling with the spiritual dryness of post-modernity and the attractive force of Christ himself. 

It's not a question of being proud of this surge, but of accompanying and encouraging it, with enthusiasm and humility.

How do you evangelize French culture? Is there hope for the future?

There's a French paradox: we may be one of the least religious countries in the world, but we're also one of the most deeply Catholic, thanks to our history and heritage. 

We need to let this heritage speak for itself, without nostalgia, but by demonstrating its cultural, i.e. human, relevance. Even if they are no longer dominant, Catholics are still significant in our society, capable, especially among young people, of wonderful missionary, charitable and cultural initiatives. 

We must continue to move forward in this way, in a spirit of unity and daring, and the rest, as the Gospel says, will be given to us in addition.

To those involved in evangelization, I just tell them: Don't be afraid. Lots of people are seeking faith and answers to their spiritual questions. So don't be afraid to proclaim that Jesus is Lord and that He is the way to salvation. 

And then, be creative. We have to find new means to encounter people, to share our faith with them in a spirit of dialogue. Let's be creative in our encounter with the culture.

I welcomed in Rome all the diocesan directors of Catholic schools in France and I celebrated Mass for them in St. Peter's. 

Nowadays because of our ever stronger secularism, some people, including some public authorities, say that Catholic schools who receive some money from the state are too missionary to continue receiving public funding. 

So, I told them: “Please don't say we have to be cautious because if we are not cautious enough, we risk losing some of the financial means. Be free! The law itself says we have the right to teach the faith in our Catholic schools.  Don't be afraid!”